Did you really just compare vented subs to a small sealed sub?
Shouldn't you be studying the log equation right now?
Did you really just compare vented subs to a small sealed sub?
Since we don't hear below 20, why would someone buy a relatively huge box to get lower extension?
And given the significant advantages of multiple subs, i cannot imagine anyone choosing one of the giant boxes over 2 boxes of manageable size,
There's also the advantage of an 18 band parametric equalizer with microphone included with the Fathoms.
Am I missing something here?
Good news, I found some CEA-2010 measurements for a 12" Rhythmik sub! The F12 is reported out in Brent Butterworth's database.
Butterworth reports CEA-2010 as peak values at 1m, Whereas Audioholics reports CEA-2010 as RMS at 2m. So the correction should be Butterworth -6dB (doubling distance) +-3dB (RMS/peak) = -9dB. Using this correction:
View attachment 107422
Ouch. I did this very quickly, so perhaps someone can double-check me (source + math). I'm happy to be corrected.
Edit: Corrected measurement distance for Butterworth/Audioholics (thanks @Sancus for catching this)
E: I bet the JL f113 is better(couldn't find measurements) than the E15HP, but it also costs $5000 which... really? WTF.
Thanks for catching this, @Sancus, I corrected my prior posts to avoid confusion.
Ah, let me clarify. From a pure performance standpoint, we already knew that Rythmik's larger subs (15", 18", 25") are high performing, based on available CEA-2010 data. However, up until this point (at least in this thread), I noticed a paucity of data available for Rythmik's subs (i.e. 12"). I theorized that perhaps Rythmik's 12" and smaller subs weren't especially high performing compared to the competition, and that was why the manufacturer released only vague performance data (in the form of a 20Hz-only output comparison chart for its product line) and was not aggressive about sending the 12" models out for testing. I also questioned whether the servo design offered any particular advantage in this size range vs. other competitor non-servo subwoofers in the 12" or smaller range. Again, if Rythmik's 12" model lineup, each featuring their servo design, was superior to everything else out there, I would expect the CEA-2010 (or other THD vs. freq) data to be blasted everywhere. A number of Rythmik owners didn't like this idea of course.
However, hopefully this discussion is settled, now that it turns out, there are CEA-2010 data for a Rythmik 12" sub. Clearly, there are other 12" subwoofers, none of which featuring a servo, that outperform the Rythmik F12. Some of them, I might point out, are similar in price. For instance:
Hsu VTF-2 MK5 - $539
Outlaw Ultra-X12 - $679
SVS PB-2000 - $899 (and includes a BT app w/3-band PEQ)
So, I'm not even sure if I can agree that Rythmik's 12" subs, specifically, have the best price/performance!
And this was my original hypothesis - that, at least for the 12" or smaller range, perhaps the servo didn't confer significant advantages over non-servo models, particularly non-servo models that are optimized in other ways.
I'm a little confused what your point is here.
All your showing is that the 12" JL outperforms the 12" Ryhmik. We're talking about price vs. performance.
My point is summarized in an earlier post.
Price vs performance was never my point. That was a consideration others brought up. In fact, I could care less about price. I'm mostly focused on performance at a given driver size. Obviously, an average 18" driver is going to outperform the very best 12", perhaps at lower price point.
I was looking at a JL F112 mostly because of the small footprint. I ended up with Custom Rythmik E22 dual12" subs in custom cabinet made by Salk sound for about 1/2 the price. They are 14" x 16.5 x 30 (W x D x H) in gloss black with mahogany sides. The two subs perform well down to 15Hz and cost less than the JLs.
View attachment 107483
The standard version from Rythmik costs $1500 in gloss black.
- Rich
That's with TV 2 inch speakers. Not 20 hz sound waves.Indeed. Whatever happened to "If it's too loud, you're too old!"
Here is a comparison Power Sound Audio's smallest, cheapest sealed sub(which was $799 at the time). It uses a 15" driver vs the JL audio E112's 12" driver. Cab size isn't extraordinarily different with 2.7ft^3 for the JL and 3.5 for PSA. Similar size, sealed, cheaper. This version of the PSA has since had its driver significantly upgraded to the B&C 15 DS115, and a much more powerful amp. The performance disparity will currently be much larger than what is seen here:I don't think Rythmik has the BEST price/performance, just better than JL. Your examples are all ported... of course you can build a cheaper, larger ported sub that beats the F12 on output. That is why you add ports to things
I don't know of anything similar-sized, sealed, and cheaper that beats it on output. I would be interested if such a thing exists, for sure!
Here is a comparison Power Sound Audio's smallest, cheapest sealed sub(which was $799 at the time). It uses a 15" driver vs the JL audio E112's 12" driver. Cab size isn't extraordinarily different with 2.7ft^3 for the JL and 3.5 for PSA. Similar size, sealed, cheaper.
Ah, so when you said you don’t know of anything that beats it that is smaller, cheaper and has more output, you meant the F12? Yeah, I think that would be tough to do within those constraints.I was referring to the Rythmik F12, not the JL E112.
Is that a Salon2 next to it ?
Thanks for catching this, @Sancus, I corrected my prior posts to avoid confusion.
Ah, let me clarify. From a pure performance standpoint, we already knew that Rythmik's larger subs (15", 18", 25") are high performing, based on available CEA-2010 data. However, up until this point (at least in this thread), I noticed a paucity of data available for Rythmik's subs (i.e. 12"). I theorized that perhaps Rythmik's 12" and smaller subs weren't especially high performing compared to the competition, and that was why the manufacturer released only vague performance data (in the form of a 20Hz-only output comparison chart for its product line) and was not aggressive about sending the 12" models out for testing. I also questioned whether the servo design offered any particular advantage in this size range vs. other competitor non-servo subwoofers in the 12" or smaller range. Again, if Rythmik's 12" model lineup, each featuring their servo design, was superior to everything else out there, I would expect the CEA-2010 (or other THD vs. freq) data to be blasted everywhere. A number of Rythmik owners didn't like this idea of course.
However, hopefully this discussion is settled, now that it turns out, there are CEA-2010 data for a Rythmik 12" sub. Clearly, there are other 12" subwoofers, none of which featuring a servo, that outperform the Rythmik F12. Some of them, I might point out, are similar in price. For instance:
Hsu VTF-2 MK5 - $539
Outlaw Ultra-X12 - $679
SVS PB-2000 - $899 (and includes a BT app w/3-band PEQ)
So, I'm not even sure if I can agree that Rythmik's 12" subs, specifically, have the best price/performance!
And this was my original hypothesis - that, at least for the 12" or smaller range, perhaps the servo didn't confer significant advantages over non-servo models, particularly non-servo models that are optimized in other ways.
A transition (like an anatomical crossover) starts around 50Hz and, the lower you go, the less dominant the ears become. The stomach in particular responds to pressure and sends sensations up through the vagus nerve. So you can "hear" well below 20Hz, but it requires massive SPL.Since we don't hear below 20, why would someone buy a relatively huge box to get lower extension?
A "gut feeling" in other wordsA transition (like an anatomical crossover) starts around 50Hz and, the lower you go, the less dominant the ears become. The stomach in particular responds to pressure and sends sensations up through the vagus nerve. So you can "hear" well below 20Hz, but it requires massive SPL.
I formed my own hypothesis from Rythmik not sending in their 12" subs for testing. It would seem that they are so capable at reproducing bass that no one would every buy their 15" or 18" models ever again because the 12s are simply as capable as their bigger brothers. How would Rythmik sell the more expensive subs if the 12s do everything the others can at a lower price? This is Marketing 101, profits come first.I'm taking the scientific approach. It's called hypothesis formation.