RME Babyface Pro vs JDS Atom

[Sevelos]

Will my Sennheiser HD600 sound better with the Topping D10+JDS Atom than with the RME Babyface Pro?
I ask specifically about my headphones, not about some super-hard-to-drive planar-magnetic ones.

And while I am already asking - will they sound even better with the THX 789+some dac?

Story:
I am looking for a good amp (and a dac) to get the best out of my Sennheiser HD600.
I currently use the Yamaha AG03 (USB) sound interface which gives me enough volume, but I suspect the sound quality could be improved as the Yamaha specs are quite low.

After reading quite a lot and watching ZeosPantera, my choice is currently Topping D10+JDS Atom, or the THX789 AAA+some dac (Topping D10 as well?).

However, as I am doing recordings sometimes, I had an idea - perhaps I could get a good Sound Interface that could also serve me as a VERY-GOOD amp for my headphones.
While the RME Babyface Pro costs much more than the Atom+D10 combined, I was considering getting it.

So, as I wrote at the top, my questions are:
Will my Sennheiser HD600 sound better with the Topping D10+JDS Atom than with the Babyface Pro?
Perhaps even better with the THX 789 AAA + some dac?

 

[andreasmaaan]

The Babyface Pro is measured here.

There will be no audible difference in terms of noise or distortion, but it might not have enough power to drive your HD600 to adequate levels.

You might consider a desktop (not portable) interface from eg MOTU, RME or Focusrite, instead.

 

[VintageFlanker]

After reading quite a lot and watching ZeosPantera, my choice is currently Topping D10+JDS Atom, or the THX789 AAA+some dac (Topping D10 as well?)

I like Z quite a lot (being a subscriber to his channel) but let's be honest, his reviews are 99% on the subjective side, so nothing revelant here on ASR. Then, what did you read?

Will my Sennheiser HD600 sound better with the Topping D10+JDS Atom than with the Babyface Pro?
Perhaps even better with the THX 789 AAA + some dac?

Few things: The BabyFace Pro is rated at 50 or 70mW (impedance not mentioned) which quite a few power and far from the Atom's abilities. HD 600 need more power IMHO and yes, the Atom would be an upgrade. I guess both D10 and BabyFace DA performance would be similar.
Then, If the HD 600 are your only headphones, I see no point to upgrade further than the Atom. You would probably not BENEFIT (audibly) from the additional power and balanced from the THX.

 

[JohnYang1997]

you can use baby face + thx 789

 

[August]

Babyface's maximum output power is 70mw, @ 0.1% THD. Atoms are much larger than them, providing 250mw at 300Ω with less than 0.0005% THD + N. The HD650 can handle input powers up to 500mW. I believe that you can get the benefits directly and be more transparent.

 

[andreasmaaan]

You might consider something from the Focusrite Clarett line, for example. Good all-round audio performance (similar to Babyface Pro, D10, etc, ie better than adequate) but capable of up to 5V RMS on the headphone output. Depending on how many inputs you need for recording, also possibly cheaper overall than other options under consideration.

 

[Sevelos]

You might consider something from the Focusrite Clarett line, for example. Good all-round audio performance (similar to Babyface Pro, D10, etc, ie better than adequate) but capable of up to 5V RMS on the headphone output. Depending on how many inputs you need for recording, also possibly cheaper overall than other options under consideration.

Very interesting. How does the sound quality of the Clarett (e.g., 2Pre or 4Pre) compare with Atom+D10, e.g., is it uncoloured, clean? I could not find any reviews that address the Clarett capabilities as a headphone amp.
Are there any other interfaces with good headphone Amps that you suggest?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Very interesting. How does the sound quality of the Clarett (e.g., 2Pre or 4Pre) compare with Atom+D10, e.g., is it uncoloured, clean? I could not find any reviews that address the Clarett capabilities as a headphone amp.
Are there any other interfaces with good headphone Amps that you suggest?

Why always compare an audio interface to a dac+ amp? Audio interface to me is essentially an adc + dac. The headphone amplifiers on these things are stupid. Atom is 100 times better. But d10 is not necessarily better than clarett or baby face . You can always use audio interface + jds atom.

 

[andreasmaaan]

How does the sound quality of the Clarett (e.g., 2Pre or 4Pre) compare with Atom+D10? I could not find any reviews that address the Clarett capabilities as a headphone amp.
Are there any other interfaces with good headphone Amps that you suggest?

I’m not aware of any reviews, but Focusrite, who generally give honest specs, give the following:

+16dBu = approx. 5V RMS, which is plenty for your headphones. 0.0008% THD is well below anything that could be audible. What’s not clear is the output impedance although IMHO, given the HD600’s relatively high input impedance, it's unlikely to be a problem. According to one source, the output impedance on the Clarett series is 7 Ohm, which would be plenty low for the HD600.

In other words, in this case I can’t imagine any audible advantage with the Atom or any other dedicated DAC/headphone amp.

 

[andreasmaaan]

The headphone amplifiers on these things are stupid. Atom is 100 times better.

I’m surprised by this assertion. If the headphone amp has an output impedance of 7 Ohm and is capable of delivering +16dBu @ 0.0008% THD, what possible audible advantage could one gain from a dedicated headphone amp with the HD600?

 

[JohnYang1997]

I’m surprised by this assertion. If the headphone amp has an output impedance of 7 Ohm and is capable of delivering +16dBu @ 0.0008% THD, what possible audible advantage could one gain from a dedicated headphone amp with the HD600?

High output impedance. High distortion when using low impedance headphones. And the attenuation on those are digital. So increases noise floor at reasonable volume. Sure when solely using hd600, there should be only minimal difference. But atom is objectively leagues ahead.
So it's not a fair comparison.

 

[MC_RME]

Will my Sennheiser HD600 sound better with the Topping D10+JDS Atom than with the RME Babyface Pro?

The scientific answer is a clear: no.

The next statement would be: yes, the Atom can drive the HD600 to more volume, but only you can know if that is necessary or already fully sufficient with a BF Pro.

andreasmaan already nailed, it, but let me explain that with some numbers. The HD600 is a 300 Ohm headphone, so it needs small currents only. It has a boost of impedance in the bass region to about 550 Ohms. Sounds like much but is not much as its base impedance is already 300 Ohm. Solderdude had measured the change in sound with a 120 Ohms resistor in series, with nearly matching results. So the internal 10 Ohms of the BF Pro will not influence the phones' sound in any way. The maximum output voltage at 300 Ohm at the BF Pro 1/4" jack is around +13 dBu. The Atom reaches +21 dBu. These +8 dB is about double the max volume. I expect the BF Pro already being loud enough for most users, but as said YMMV.

If you have the money to get the Babyface Pro, then you should be able to get the Atom as well. Heck, if I would live in the US I had one on my table already. At that price it's a no brainer, even if you then discover that you don't need it with a BF Pro. You will need it for something else later...

 

[Sevelos]

If you have the money to get the Babyface Pro, then you should be able to get the Atom as well. Heck, if I would live in the US I had one on my table already. At that price it's a no brainer, even if you then discover that you don't need it with a BF Pro. You will need it for something else later...

That's an interesting idea - to get both. How can I connect the Atom to the Babyface Pro?
I don't think the Babyface has non-balanced DAC outputs. In case I connect the Atom to the BFP headphones jack, what volume should I set the Babyface so the Atom works well, without being influenced by the BFP amp?

 

[JohnYang1997]

That's an interesting idea - to get both. How can I connect the Atom to the Babyface Pro?
I don't think the Babyface has non-balanced DAC outputs. In case I connect the Atom to the BFP headphones jack, what volume should I set the Babyface so the Atom works well, without being influenced by the BFP amp?

Headphone jack is good enough. When the output (of babyface pro)is non loaded(10kohn) it's clean. I have been using this method with my focusrite forte. I do measurements with amplifiers. It works.

 

[MC_RME]

The phones outputs are 'non-balanced' line outputs that you could use. Get a TRS to 2 x TS cable (often called Insert cable, or stereo to L/R splitter). The Atom then works as current power horse and voltage amplifier. Oh, JohnYang has beaten me...

 

[Sevelos]

The phones outputs are 'non-balanced' line outputs that you could use. Get a TRS to 2 x TS cable (often called Insert cable, or stereo to L/R splitter). The Atom then works as current power horse and voltage amplifier. Oh, JohnYang has beaten me...

Thanks. Just to make sure I understand - to which volume level should I set BFP in this case, to minimal, medium, or it doesn't matter?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Thanks. Just to make sure I understand - to which volume level should I set BFP in this case, to minimal, medium, or it doesn't matter?

Most people will say maximum. But in reality not necessarily. I would say -20db to -6db. This may sounds non decisive.
Here is what you do. Set atom at 9 - 10 o'clock on low gain. And then adjust volume on babyface.
If you need higher volune you can leave babyface at -6 to -3db and crank atom.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Even if you decide to get the Atom for use as a headphone amp, I'm still not sure why you would buy the Babyface Pro, when for half the price you could get a desktop unit with better (albeit not audibly better) performance. Just my 2c...

 

[Sevelos]

Even if you decide to get the Atom for use as a headphone amp, I'm still not sure why you would buy the Babyface Pro, when for half the price you could get a desktop unit with better (albeit not audibly better) performance. Just my 2c...

Could you please recommend me such desktop interfaces? Preferably with good headphone amps. It will take me days to research this from scratch...

 

[andreasmaaan]

Could you please recommend me such desktop interfaces? Preferably with good headphone amps. It will take me days to research this from scratch...

Assuming you will use this long-term for recording etc, what are you requirements in terms of inputs and outputs and so on?