RME ADI-2 Pro FS R vs. MOTU M2

[manisandher]

Interesting.

And that's why I stopped ripping.

I didn't want the distortion removed.

If I want clean and pristine, I listen to digital.

I've got a couple of hundred LPs which are quite rare, and some quite expensive now (some Decca SXL, Columbia SAX, etc.). Until recently, I was using a Decca cartridge. Being a 'vinyl guy' yourself, you're no doubt familiar with the (unfair IMO) Decca reputation for chewing up records. So I decided to rip them once and enjoy them digitally.

Also, I don't want any unnecessary clutter in my room, or headache playing music. Vinyl can be a right PITA.

 

[SoZo]

Need some answers.. too many tests and no answers !
In the second example I liked C better for its clarity and contrast.
Wast thinking A Prism, B Motu, C RME

 

[Blumlein 88]

Need some answers.. too many tests and no answers !
In the second example I liked C better for its clarity and contrast.
Wast thinking A Prism, B Motu, C RME

So here is the problem with this kind of test. Are you assuming Prism is best, RME next and Motu last? How would you know? Or did you assume the RME is most clear so that is why you assign C to the RME? This sort of thing is falacious on its face.

If you rank them according to quality, and honestly without the original to reference you are buying a pig in a poke, then you have no way to guess which brand is which without assumptions about which brand is best. At this end we are in no position to assign a brand to any file. Doing so in fact is wholly ridiculous.

If a fair number of people rank the various versions, and there is pretty much a consensus then at that point revealing the brand will tell you something. If the consensus is the Motu sounds best then so be it. If the consensus the Prism is best then so be it. Of course if no consensus ever forms then you've determined pretty much nothing whatsoever.

 

[Tks]

Since the topic got to vinyl vs digital. One thing I will say as to why vinyl is superior, its because it didnt allow this compression plague to reign supreme. Its so bad in my opinion that I'd gladly take whatever the fidelity hit is vs digital.

And this is coming from someone who has no vinyl in his home.

 

[manisandher]

Haha... Sorry, I totally forgot!

OK, there have been 4 'tests' so far; the first just A and B; the second, third and fourth, A, B and C.

In test 1 (Talk Talk):

A = MOTU
B = RME

In test 2 (Dead Can Dance):

A = RME
B = Prism
C = MOTU

In test 3 (acoustic guitar):

A = RME
B = Prism
C = MOTU

In test 4 (vocals):

A = RME
B = Prism
C = MOTU

FWIW, listening to the raw files, my order of preference (purely in terms of sound quality) is:

1st RME (A)
2nd MOTU (C)
3rd Prism (B)

I can't prove anything to anyone - maybe I'm just imagining what I'm hearing. But I hear the RME as having more delineated transients and more ambient information (e.g. reverb). The others sound slightly 'deader'. It's the only ADC (that I've ever had) that sounds identical to the direct vinyl.

Mani.

 

[outerspace]

So the clear conclusion is you don't need to spend more than $200 to get the vinyl rip indistinguishable in ABX test from reference level $1700 ADC. Recording procedure is much more important than recording interface.

 

[watchnerd]

So the clear conclusion is you don't need to spend more than $200 to get the vinyl rip indistinguishable in ABX test from reference level $1700 ADC. Recording procedure is much more important than recording interface.

Well, duh.

Vinyl only has a dynamic range of about 14 bits, at best.

Spending more money on an ADC does not make for better rips once you get beyond a "decent" ADC.

I thought this was common knowledge.

 

[manisandher]

Spending more money on an ADC does not make for better rips once you get beyond a "decent" ADC.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[manisandher]

If you listen to the raw files, ignore the differences in levels, clicks, ticks and distortion, and feel that there is no difference in sound quality, then yes, for you, the $200 ADC is as good as the $1700 ADC here.

People always talk about bias... I would have loved for my beloved Prism to be the best-sounding of the test. But to my ears, it's bettered (just) by the $200 MOTU.

The one valuable lesson I think anyone can take away from this thread is that the MOTU M2 is a phenomenal piece of kit for the money. (And it's got 48V phantom mic inputs too, which the RME and Prism don't.)

Mani.

 

[SoZo]

Haha... Sorry, I totally forgot!

OK, there have been 4 'tests' so far; the first just A and B; the second, third and fourth, A, B and C.

In test 1 (Talk Talk):

A = MOTU
B = RME

In test 2 (Dead Can Dance):

A = RME
B = Prism
C = MOTU

In test 3 (acoustic guitar):

A = RME
B = Prism
C = MOTU

In test 4 (vocals):

A = RME
B = Prism
C = MOTU

FWIW, listening to the raw files, my order of preference (purely in terms of sound quality) is:

1st RME (A)
2nd MOTU (C)
3rd Prism (B)

I can't prove anything to anyone - maybe I'm just imagining what I'm hearing. But I hear the RME as having more delineated transients and more ambient information (e.g. reverb). The others sound slightly 'deader'. It's the only ADC (that I've ever had) that sounds identical to the direct vinyl.

Mani.

RME On the guitar... ( Im a 40 year guitarist) the timber and harmonics on the strings are the most correct) The bass is the tightest. The mid is thicker,not perfect but not bad. It is the most resolved.

Motu The hard glare on the high mid I did not like
Prism The highs were too high and separated from the fundamental.

HOWEVER I could use any of them to make hit record...
Thanks,
John

 

[Blumlein 88]

RME On the guitar... ( Im a 40 year guitarist) the timber and harmonics on the strings are the most correct) The bass is the tightest. The mid is thicker,not perfect but not bad. It is the most resolved.

Motu The hard glare on the high mid I did not like
Prism The highs were too high and separated from the fundamental.

HOWEVER I could use any of them to make hit record...
Thanks,
John

Carrying on a fine tradition of detailed sonic descriptions as soon as the identity of the gear is known.

My apologies, I don't mean to pick on you, and it is nothing personal. I just see this over and over again. I see it with all kinds of gear on both the recording and playback side. Post some files and let people listen you don't get much. Reveal which is which and everybody hears the difference.

What happened to the clarity and contrast of C which you presumed was the RME and which is now known to be the Motu. Now it isn't clarity and contrast, but rather glare?

 

[watchnerd]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Sure.

Although technically you'll have to explain to me why it's not correct.

I'd love to imagine that my RME ADI-2 Pro is "better" than a decent $200 ADC with 90+ dB SINAD when it comes to vinyl ripping, but I can't intellectually defend it.

 

[SoZo]

Carrying on a fine tradition of detailed sonic descriptions as soon as the identity of the gear is known.

My apologies, I don't mean to pick on you, and it is nothing personal. I just see this over and over again. I see it with all kinds of gear on both the recording and playback side. Post some files and let people listen you don't get much. Reveal which is which and everybody hears the difference.

What happened to the clarity and contrast of C which you presumed was the RME and which is now known to be the Motu. Now it isn't clarity and contrast, but rather glare?

If the files were available I would listen again...

 

[manisandher]

Although technically you'll have to explain to me why it's not correct.

I'm going to try to do this in a new thread, once I've got some data to substantiate my findings.

But for now...

Set your ADI-2 Pro to preamp (where it does AD/DA conversation by default) and to at least 176.4 or 192k sample rate (this is important). Play an analogue source. Switch between the 'super slow' and 'sharp' filters. The frequency response in the audioband will remain the same. There'll be no aliasing back into the audioband (as the analogue signal won't be high enough in frequency). The noise and distortion will remain the same.

But the filters will sound different. Why?

Mani.

 

[SoZo]

Carrying on a fine tradition of detailed sonic descriptions as soon as the identity of the gear is known.

My apologies, I don't mean to pick on you, and it is nothing personal. I just see this over and over again. I see it with all kinds of gear on both the recording and playback side. Post some files and let people listen you don't get much. Reveal which is which and everybody hears the difference.

What happened to the clarity and contrast of C which you presumed was the RME and which is now known to be the Motu. Now it isn't clarity and contrast, but rather glare?

And I still Like C MOTU for dynamics and clarity the best... Just not tone(bias of the Analog section maybe ?)

 

[manisandher]

If the files were available I would listen again...

Just use these:

A
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dDSQY8RiUoxJnN31Pyyi_rPclXHCogld/view?usp=sharing

B
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j8oxgVGg6c94rVjHGBTyAmt5NtAbgtCO/view?usp=sharing

C
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11bx8uYOY9LdJkf7jp20QR62AJAU2tUsF/view?usp=sharing

A has the lowest level, C the next lowest, and B the highest. But they're within 0.5dB of each other.

Mani.

 

[SoZo]

Just use these:

A
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dDSQY8RiUoxJnN31Pyyi_rPclXHCogld/view?usp=sharing

B
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j8oxgVGg6c94rVjHGBTyAmt5NtAbgtCO/view?usp=sharing

C
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11bx8uYOY9LdJkf7jp20QR62AJAU2tUsF/view?usp=sharing

A has the lowest level, C the next lowest, and B the highest. But they're within 0.5dB of each other.

Mani.

looking for test 2 files

 

[watchnerd]

I'm going to try to do this in a new thread, once I've got some data to substantiate my findings.

But for now...

Set your ADI-2 Pro to preamp (where it does AD/DA conversation by default) and to at least 176.4 or 192k sample rate (this is important). Play an analogue source. Switch between the 'super slow' and 'sharp' filters. The frequency response in the audioband will remain the same. There'll be no aliasing back into the audioband (as the analogue signal won't be high enough in frequency). The noise and distortion will remain the same.

But the filters will sound different. Why?

Mani.

Even if I hear it, what does it prove relative to ADC cost and vinyl ripping?

That's just a test of filter audibility, or lack thereof.

 

[Blumlein 88]

looking for test 2 files

Just pick two and ignore the third.

 

[SoZo]

Just pick two and ignore three other.

Same... really like the Motu but its forward and harsh but dynamic and exciting.
The RME has a richer darker sound and better timbre.