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Review and Measurements of Lyngdorf RoomPerfect EQ
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
It has been a battle, it sat in the attic for over three years burning in. The speakers and amplifier have changed. Software for playback and OS have updated. Biggest hurdle is the computer was moved across the room from equipment rack to work desk. Facilitated by a 10 meter Corning optical Thunderbolt cable. Did not want to move computer back.
Finally bit and changed from a 10 meter computer cable to a pair of 10 meter analog balanced microphone cables to connect Ergo amplifiers. Cobbled them up this morning.
Finally bit and changed from a 10 meter computer cable to a pair of 10 meter analog balanced microphone cables to connect Ergo amplifiers. Cobbled them up this morning.
The calibration process kicked my butt. It was always clunky. Prone to lock ups and shut downs. Plus my failing memory of all the quirks.
But after many reboots, power cycles, and changing cal mic finally got a room cal number high enough to run room calculations. Did it three times.
Think these big honking horns and slamming sub got a real loosening up. Whole house was shaking, pictures on the walls
vibrating, glad wife was at work.
But after many reboots, power cycles, and changing cal mic finally got a room cal number high enough to run room calculations. Did it three times.
Think these big honking horns and slamming sub got a real loosening up. Whole house was shaking, pictures on the walls
And results, first ran with no correction from the Room Perfect. The stored cals were for Thiel CS-3.5 speakers. Current are Klipsch La Scala II. Radiation patterns, sensitivity, and loading were all different.
The Ergo without DRC sounded a little flat compared to the Focusrite Clarett 4Pre. Noisier, less clear. Less dynamic. With DRC engaged whole new ball game. The midrange and bass are cleaner. Better details. Think the small amplitude and phase adjustments have cleaned up the room interactions.
Think it will take little dialing in, but it has REAL promise. Just the better blending of horns to sub is enough to offset the decreased resolution.
This version of Room Perfect is the one that runs at 96k. In a 10 year old interface (dac).
Lyngdorf was ahead of most. Did it with a hardware solution.
The Ergo without DRC sounded a little flat compared to the Focusrite Clarett 4Pre. Noisier, less clear. Less dynamic. With DRC engaged whole new ball game. The midrange and bass are cleaner. Better details. Think the small amplitude and phase adjustments have cleaned up the room interactions.
Think it will take little dialing in, but it has REAL promise. Just the better blending of horns to sub is enough to offset the decreased resolution.
This version of Room Perfect is the one that runs at 96k. In a 10 year old interface (dac).
Lyngdorf was ahead of most. Did it with a hardware solution.
The M10 looks very good. The support from the manufacturer should be consistent also. This is important.
The integrated amplifier performance from both is fine. Talented people were involved in designing and building both.
Evaluating the different DRC systems is difficult. The results from running room calibration do not always repeat closely. Small changes in microphone position affect the corrections. All the DRC seem to help. I think a software solution is better long term than hardware. The firmware updating for hardware usually stops once the unit is out of production.
Cost, support, and features between the units should weigh into selection. The audio performance differences between the two are small. Both are excellent.
But I have it heard both in the same room with the same system on the same day to identify sonic differences.
The integrated amplifier performance from both is fine. Talented people were involved in designing and building both.
Evaluating the different DRC systems is difficult. The results from running room calibration do not always repeat closely. Small changes in microphone position affect the corrections. All the DRC seem to help. I think a software solution is better long term than hardware. The firmware updating for hardware usually stops once the unit is out of production.
Cost, support, and features between the units should weigh into selection. The audio performance differences between the two are small. Both are excellent.
But I have it heard both in the same room with the same system on the same day to identify sonic differences.
The KRK Ergo with Lyngdorf Room Perfect still is operating fine. Have not swapped back to the higher spec Clarett 4Pre. The decade old DRC is still operating as designed with room issues. The listening room (area) is difficult, a loft that opens up to 2 story areas on two non-symmetrical sides. The speaker system is a challenge too.
The 20 - 500 Hz operating range of this version of Room Perfect covers two crossover frequencies. The Ergo is running in 2.2 mode with filters at 60 Hz. This is an active crossover to active subs. The speakers have a passive crossover at 400 Hz from the horn loaded 15” woofer to the horn loaded 2” midrange compression driver.
One thing noticed is that the global/focus function no longer changes the presentation as much as before when used with more conventional speakers. The difference used to be clear. Better everywhere. With 3 way horns the only thing I can identify is a little smoother mid range response.
The 20 - 500 Hz operating range of this version of Room Perfect covers two crossover frequencies. The Ergo is running in 2.2 mode with filters at 60 Hz. This is an active crossover to active subs. The speakers have a passive crossover at 400 Hz from the horn loaded 15” woofer to the horn loaded 2” midrange compression driver.
One thing noticed is that the global/focus function no longer changes the presentation as much as before when used with more conventional speakers. The difference used to be clear. Better everywhere. With 3 way horns the only thing I can identify is a little smoother mid range response.
I have read both part 1 and 2 and am torn. I read part 2 first and then saw the results from part 1 and was not happy to see the results. Something like the TDAI fits the bill for me - Roon Ready, MQA, small form factor, and decent power. I also want something smaller/lighter and less fussy than separates (have those elsewhere!).
My question is - what is a viable alternative to this? I looked into the Benchmark Amp recommended here and the Matrix Element as a streamer. I would still need to figure out room correction. While the Benchmark and Matrix are clearly "better" than the Lyngdorf as per the measurements, does the package as per Amir really address those shortcomings and make this worth a purchase? Amir wrote: "But for someone starting fresh and aiming high, the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 makes a ton of sense and causes you to forget the issues I found in measurements of its electronics."
What would make it worth *not* overlooking those measurements? The Lyngdorf is not inexpensive and a similar budget can buy many other things.
Thanks!
My question is - what is a viable alternative to this? I looked into the Benchmark Amp recommended here and the Matrix Element as a streamer. I would still need to figure out room correction. While the Benchmark and Matrix are clearly "better" than the Lyngdorf as per the measurements, does the package as per Amir really address those shortcomings and make this worth a purchase? Amir wrote: "But for someone starting fresh and aiming high, the Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 makes a ton of sense and causes you to forget the issues I found in measurements of its electronics."
What would make it worth *not* overlooking those measurements? The Lyngdorf is not inexpensive and a similar budget can buy many other things.
Thanks!
Micromega M-1 150 or the M-1 100 with the MARS option compete. Class AB and not Class D. Even have phono stages.
I now use a dac with Room Perfect and some less expensive Micromega integrated units. Very happy.
Digital Room Correction is frowned on by many. I think it is application dependent. Some feel it does more damage than good.
I have a difficult room. Used with a time aligned three way and a sub it did not do much. With a non phase aligned three way and the same sub it really seemed to blend sub to the woofers and the woofers to the mids.
I doubt DRC ever lowers sound quality. If done properly.
I now use a dac with Room Perfect and some less expensive Micromega integrated units. Very happy.
Digital Room Correction is frowned on by many. I think it is application dependent. Some feel it does more damage than good.
I have a difficult room. Used with a time aligned three way and a sub it did not do much. With a non phase aligned three way and the same sub it really seemed to blend sub to the woofers and the woofers to the mids.
I doubt DRC ever lowers sound quality. If done properly.
SinnerSaint
Member
Bump:
"The Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 makes a ton of sense and causes you to forget the issues I found in measurements of its electronics."
Well aware Room Correction can address Bass, Mids, & Highs; would like clarification specifically on how any Room Correction 'fixes' distortion, high levels of distortion at that!
If the sound performance improves from Room Correction to the point of 'overcoming' the negative effect of high distortion, can understand that.
However, Room Correction doesn't solve any system related distortion [only room 'distortion'].
Struggling w/Part 1 & Part 2 adding up to a recommendation too!!
"The Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 makes a ton of sense and causes you to forget the issues I found in measurements of its electronics."
Well aware Room Correction can address Bass, Mids, & Highs; would like clarification specifically on how any Room Correction 'fixes' distortion, high levels of distortion at that!
If the sound performance improves from Room Correction to the point of 'overcoming' the negative effect of high distortion, can understand that.
However, Room Correction doesn't solve any system related distortion [only room 'distortion'].
I personally was told to dial volume up to -9dB, but performed the calibration with -23dB (couldn’t tolerate more)
Does sound level have any impact on calibration? (expect more background noise interference)
Room frequencies response is independent of volume?
You shouldn't have to go up to a level that is intolerable. At the start of RP, the Lyngdorf should give a recommended volume level, but if that's too loud, just dial it down to a level that is tolerable. I have a 3400 and when I run RP, it recommends a volume level of around -11dB. I don't find that overly loud, but then I don't have efficient speakers. I have also calibrated at lower levels before now without any issues, so just do it at a comfortable level for yourself and all should be fine.
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I know this response is a bit late, but for future reference, the NAD M33 includes a Purifi amplifier, Dirac, music streaming services and BluOS capability - truly an all-in-one solution that helps justify the $5,000 cost if you were looking to spend that much on amp, pre-amp, dac, streamer and Dirac.
Couple items. Replaced a Focusrite Clarett 4Pre with a KRK Ergo. Owned for 10 years.
Big PITA. Was using a 10 meter Corning TB cable to connect interface to computer. FireWire is like USB, shorter is better. Like having computer on one side of room and stereo on the other. Requires a 10 meter cable.
Had the brainstorm of using 10 meter analog cables to connect Ergo to amps. Worked great.
The RoomPerfect must be made for systems like mine. The small adjustments to amplitude and phase really help the Klipsch La Scala II speakers. Big improvement in tonal response. Very satisfying.
But the 10 meter analog cables were picking up a little noise. With volume maxed could hear a low level hiss from tweeter when ear was inches away. This is a 105 dB tweeter, so it does not take much. Played with about five different cables, none eliminated this.
Hooked the 4Pre back up and with 1 meter balanced cables it was silent. Swapped back. The Clarett is about 10 dB cleaner than the Ergo.
But all the warts in everything else (speakers, room, and cheap electronics) were annoying. Swapped back.
The magic is back now. The RoomPerfect (even 2009 vintage) is a game changer. Moved computer back across the room into stereo rack. Using the same analog cable as when using the Clarett. Much less noise with a 1 meter cable versus the 10 meter ones. The long ones were run next to several AC lines,Ethernet, and speaker cables. Must have picked up hash.
Living with computer across the room from Monitor, mouse and keyboard for now.
As far as calibrating the level in RoomPerfect there is some unit to unit variability. I have three Ergo units and three calibration mics. The mics are all interchangeable. But the displayed level for calibration varies by unit. One is loud at -25 dB. The two are closer to expected. But all three are not consistent.
I set level to an uncomfortable level. Wall shaking and screaming highs. Pictures sometimes rattling on the walls. Fix those problems and then turn down a little.
And accept that volume for room calibration.
The speakers are very directional. The high frequency measurement must require a set minimum level. If too low it runs the calibration longer for that position. It shows overload and shuts down if level is too high.
I would chase down a 1120. But have lots of amps, several never used. Fear that they might collect dust for a long time if a 1120 made it here.
Big PITA. Was using a 10 meter Corning TB cable to connect interface to computer. FireWire is like USB, shorter is better. Like having computer on one side of room and stereo on the other. Requires a 10 meter cable.
Had the brainstorm of using 10 meter analog cables to connect Ergo to amps. Worked great.
The RoomPerfect must be made for systems like mine. The small adjustments to amplitude and phase really help the Klipsch La Scala II speakers. Big improvement in tonal response. Very satisfying.
But the 10 meter analog cables were picking up a little noise. With volume maxed could hear a low level hiss from tweeter when ear was inches away. This is a 105 dB tweeter, so it does not take much. Played with about five different cables, none eliminated this.
Hooked the 4Pre back up and with 1 meter balanced cables it was silent. Swapped back. The Clarett is about 10 dB cleaner than the Ergo.
But all the warts in everything else (speakers, room, and cheap electronics) were annoying. Swapped back.
The magic is back now. The RoomPerfect (even 2009 vintage) is a game changer. Moved computer back across the room into stereo rack. Using the same analog cable as when using the Clarett. Much less noise with a 1 meter cable versus the 10 meter ones. The long ones were run next to several AC lines,Ethernet, and speaker cables. Must have picked up hash.
Living with computer across the room from Monitor, mouse and keyboard for now.
As far as calibrating the level in RoomPerfect there is some unit to unit variability. I have three Ergo units and three calibration mics. The mics are all interchangeable. But the displayed level for calibration varies by unit. One is loud at -25 dB. The two are closer to expected. But all three are not consistent.
I set level to an uncomfortable level. Wall shaking and screaming highs. Pictures sometimes rattling on the walls. Fix those problems and then turn down a little.
And accept that volume for room calibration.
The speakers are very directional. The high frequency measurement must require a set minimum level. If too low it runs the calibration longer for that position. It shows overload and shuts down if level is too high.
I would chase down a 1120. But have lots of amps, several never used. Fear that they might collect dust for a long time if a 1120 made it here.
RiseFall
Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2021
- Messages
- 35
- Likes
- 3
I am writing here the same question that I propose on the LS50 Meta thread.
Basically, I wonder, according to you, owning a new TDAI-3400 and a coulple of Kef LS50 Metas, if makes sense to buy a complete Lyngdorf set (satellites and subs) and sending back the Kef (I still have time).
Actually the Metas works very, very good in my poor squared room, with a presentation that is good to excellent from bass to highs.
The only complain is in the mid-bass area where the punch is even too much, and this happen only with some genre of music (mostly dance, hip-hop and some pop).
The, based on your experiences, the Metas could be outperformed by a complete Lyngdorf set when paired to the TDAI-3400 or I will fall into an downgrade, considering the extremely refinement of the Metas?
Basically, I wonder, according to you, owning a new TDAI-3400 and a coulple of Kef LS50 Metas, if makes sense to buy a complete Lyngdorf set (satellites and subs) and sending back the Kef (I still have time).
Actually the Metas works very, very good in my poor squared room, with a presentation that is good to excellent from bass to highs.
The only complain is in the mid-bass area where the punch is even too much, and this happen only with some genre of music (mostly dance, hip-hop and some pop).
The, based on your experiences, the Metas could be outperformed by a complete Lyngdorf set when paired to the TDAI-3400 or I will fall into an downgrade, considering the extremely refinement of the Metas?
Have you tried room correction? Seems like that could fix the extra mid-bass issue, which sounds to me like a room mode.
