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Review and Measurements of Holo Audio Cyan DSD DAC

gvl

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#41
I have this Cyan DSD and also both Spring 1 and Spring 2 DACs and running at DSD256 they sound about as neutral as the RME ADI-2 running at DSD256, with less characteristic sound than ESS Sabre which always seems to have it's own immediately recognizable characteristic flavor
This community doesn't believe in sound flavors. I thought I did but no longer sure I do, or at least not to the extent I originally thought.
 

Miska

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#43
This community doesn't believe in sound flavors. I thought I did but no longer sure I do, or at least not to the extent I originally thought.
I never thought that as thing matter of belief.

My approach for selection has been to first perform sanity check by measurements and then do selection based on listening. Not much different from buying a car or motorcycle. One can check the specs, but when you start driving one you notice how it behaves and no specs can describe that. I don't select a car or bike based on power and torque curves either... Although I usually use software to improve my car too, on my previous car which was Mini I had SuperChips ECU tuning to bring quite a bit of extra power and torque (it improved fuel economy by 0.5 l/100km too). Now I need to look up a good tuning for my current Volvo too. Yeah, both measurable and noticeable difference as well. :)
 

pkane

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#44
I never thought that as thing matter of belief.
It is a matter of belief that all things matter for audio. You spend a lot of time fixing and making things appear better in measurements. I'm all for that. I'm an engineer and I also use your software (mostly for DSP). But, as far as I can see it is only a matter of belief that these things really need to be fixed. A lot more objective evidence is needed to demonstrate that there are audible effects to a -100dB spuria at 1MHz that need to be corrected.

And I've certainly mucked around with reprogramming ECUs on my cars. But I tell you, a carwash and new coat of wax increases torque and HP by at least 10%!
 

gvl

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#45
I never thought that as thing matter of belief.

My approach for selection has been to first perform sanity check by measurements and then do selection based on listening. Not much different from buying a car or motorcycle.
Do you have any theories based on the data you collected as to why ESS chips have that characteristic sound that's attributed to them?
 

Miska

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#46
You spend a lot of time fixing and making things appear better in measurements.
That is part of the picture. But OTOH, I have spent even more time thinking and listening different filter designs which all provide very good measured performance. Same goes for modulator designs too. Talking about objective numbers, especially on forums like this, is much easier than talking about listening experiences.

And once again, I want to combine this with other important things like digital room correction and headphone processing, etc. It all goes along nicely in the same DSP engine. Once you run one of these, you can as well have the other.

A lot more objective evidence is needed to demonstrate that there are audible effects to a -100dB spuria at 1MHz that need to be corrected.
I've been mostly talking about correlated images around 352.8/384k at level around -60 dB. It is not about just broadly spuria, it is specifically about correlated spuria.

Given that there are audible differences between different scenarios, and certain measured differences as well between the same scenarios. Given all the options I have some picture how different things correlate. There are of course many things one can measure.

As I earlier said, there's some amount of gap between "I can measure things you can't hear" and "you can't measure what I can hear" camps. And I firmly stand right in the middle. Sometimes feel like being ripped apart. :rolleyes:
 

Miska

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#47
Do you have any theories based on the data you collected as to why ESS chips have that characteristic sound that's attributed to them?
Not very good one. But it to some extent seems to be about modulator design, but not entirely. To other extent about how the DSP + conversion stage behaves together. It is not all that different from what ESS has said either.
 

amirm

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#48
Sometimes feel like being ripped apart. :rolleyes:
Ex CTO of Intel once told me: when you stand in the middle, you get hit by both sides. :) That is what was happening in the last forum I started so decided this one would not be in the middle. That said, I also don't want us to be too orthodox.

BTW, took me a bit to realize you are the author of HQPlayer. Do you mine putting that in your signature for the benefit of others? It is good to know where someone comes from. HQPlayer shows a lot of knowledge on signal processing side and that is a good thing to identify to membership.
 

Miska

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#49
BTW, took me a bit to realize you are the author of HQPlayer. Do you mine putting that in your signature for the benefit of others? It is good to know where someone comes from. HQPlayer shows a lot of knowledge on signal processing side and that is a good thing to identify to membership.
Isn't it showing there already? I put it there almost immediately after creating the account! I have no intentions being any kind of under-cover person!

Thanks!
 
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