Looking for Affordable DAC With Specific Features

[420jjjazz666]

Hello,

I am looking to buy an affordable (let's say ~$300 or less) DAC with some specific features in mind.
So this DAC will be used as a source for a Lafayette tube amp, output through EV Aristocrat 3-way corner horn speakers.
I am interested in a well-performing Toslink input, to use my old Onkyo CD player as a transport.
I would also like USB, to connect to my mid-2012 MacBook Pro (still going strong!) to play DSD and PCM.
I listen to a pretty wide range of music (jazz, country, reggae, noise, classical, psychedelic rock, world music) and have lots of digital files I would like to hear out of the stereo in their full glory.

I think the JDS Labs Atom 2 looks pretty good, but can anyone else shoot me some other recommendations?

Thank you, any help would be appreciated
420JJJazz666

 

[virtua]

I would go for the SMSL SU-1 personally, should do everything you ask and has performance well beyond enough to be transparent sounding.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi,
The JDS Labs Atom 2 is a nice DAC with a good reputation. Objectively, you won't find much that's better.
You can manage DSP in your MacBook, so that's covered.

The Review Index on this site will give you other options if you really want to look for them. One possibility is the WiiM Pro Plus which would add in some PEQ functionality for your CDs.

If you are already happy with the idea of the JDS Labs, then I see no reason not to go with it.

Enjoy the music

 

[Dunring]

It's worth going for the JDS Labs just for the tech support, not to mention how well it'll perform. If it's got the connections you need, go for it.

 

[jcarys]

Anything from Topping with a Toslink input - there are tons of options, including the ones listed above.

 

[Joe Smith]

Really like the Atom+ DAC, and the Atom 2 is bound to also be great. It's a no-muss, no fuss solution if you can live without a coaxial connection.

 

[420jjjazz666]

I would go for the SMSL SU-1 personally, should do everything you ask and has performance well beyond enough to be transparent sounding.

I had seen reports earlier (last year?) of issues with this one on Mac, and issues with the toslink. Do you have any info on this?

Hi,
The JDS Labs Atom 2 is a nice DAC with a good reputation. Objectively, you won't find much that's better.
You can manage DSP in your MacBook, so that's covered.

The Review Index on this site will give you other options if you really want to look for them. One possibility is the WiiM Pro Plus which would add in some PEQ functionality for your CDs.

If you are already happy with the idea of the JDS Labs, then I see no reason not to go with it.

Enjoy the music

The WiiM does look pretty cool.

 

[mc.god]

Since you're going to hook it to an old tube amp I think that measurements wise you can choose pretty anything produced in the last 20 years.

 

[virtua]

I had seen reports earlier (last year?) of issues with this one on Mac, and issues with the toslink. Do you have any info on this?

Sorry, I had no idea about these reported issues. If that's the case, then it might be safer to go with another option. Honestly, most everything that comes from a decent brand is good these days performance wise, you're better off vetting for reliability. We are well above 100db SINAD now, where any of the tiny distortion harmonics are going to nullified by auditory masking anyway.

I also agree with @mc.god as well, they make a very good point. The performance of your setup is going to be bottlenecked by your Tube amp, any extra performance the DAC is capable of beyond what the tube amp provides won't be taken advantage of.

 

[420jjjazz666]

Sorry, I had no idea about these reported issues. If that's the case, then it might be safer to go with another option. Honestly, most everything that comes from a decent brand is good these days performance wise, you're better off vetting for reliability. We are well above 100db SINAD now, where any of the tiny distortion harmonics are going to nullified by auditory masking anyway.

I also agree with @mc.god as well, they make a very good point. The performance of your setup is going to be bottlenecked by your Tube amp, any extra performance the DAC is capable of beyond what the tube amp provides won't be taken advantage of.

What is a good metric to use to determine this cutoff?
Here are some specs on the 240 (not sure how accurate these are really)

SPECIFICATIONS
Power Output and Distortion 20 watts per channel at less than 1% total harmonic distortion at 1 Kc. Less than 0.25% total harmonic distortion at 14 watts; less than 0.12% at 1 watt. Intermodulation Distortion. .075% at 1 watt;
34% at 10 watts. Frequency Response: 12 to 100,000 cps.1 db at 1 watt. 50 to 70,000 cps 1 db at full output. Sensitivity: For full output: High Level inputs 0.75v Mag inputs 5.5 Mv at 1 Kc. Tone Control Range: Treble: 12 db
boost or cut at 10 KC. Bass: 15 db boost or cut at 50 cps.. Hum and Noise: Zero volume hum: 80 db below rated output. Maximum volume hum: High level inputs, 78 db below rated
output: Mag. Phono inputs, 50 db below rated output.Outputs: Dual 8 and 15 ohm impedance speaker outputs,Dual Tape outputs.

Tube Complement: 4-6BQ5/EL84, 2
6BL8/ECF80, 3-12AX7/ECC83, 1-GZ34/5AR4.

Also wanna add that my speakers' frequency response:

35 to 15,000 Hz
(Thinking of getting a servo sub sometime to augment)

 

[virtua]

What is a good metric to use to determine this cutoff?
Here are some specs on the 240 (not sure how accurate these are really)

Also wanna add that my speakers' frequency response:

35 to 15,000 Hz
(Thinking of getting a servo sub sometime to augment)

Usually a proper test with an analyser will give us more reliable information than specs, but if we are to trust the specs sheet - converting the THD 0.12% at 1 watt (which provides the lowest distortion) to decibels gives us -58 db. I'm guessing hum will be 78db as per the specs which determines noise floor/SNR. This is a very low bar for almost any DAC to clear. Overall noise and distortion performance of a system is generally dictated by the piece of equipment with the highest noise and distortion, as such adding equipment with better noise and distortion performance cannot hurt but it can't improve it beyond that level.

Frequency response is not an issue for DACs as likely 99.9% will have no issue playing the full spectrum of audible frequencies and most well beyond that.

In terms of a solid number to give you, I'd say that roughly any DAC with a SINAD above 70 (shown in Amirs measurements) would be good enough, but more realistically you could even go lower than that. The thing is - these days, you almost have to design a DAC on purpose to have performance worse than 70db SINAD which is where @mc.god comment about basically anything made in the past 20 years being good enough comes from.

Making pragmatic sense of this, the ideal DAC for your setup would be anything you already have laying around, and if you don't have anything laying around - whatever is cheapest that you can get that fulfills your requirements while being reliable. Even the line-out/headphone out of your Macbook Pro would be good enough with a 3.5mm to RCA adapter. However - keeping it simple, I think the JDS Atom DAC will be absolutely more than good enough.

 

[420jjjazz666]

Even the line-out/headphone out of your Macbook Pro would be good enough with a 3.5mm to RCA adapter.

That might seem true on paper, but playing a ripped CD in FLAC through the headphone out of the laptop doesn't sound as good as the CD player just playing the CD. Apple output sounds less "alive."

 

[Berwhale]

That might seem true on paper, but playing a ripped CD in FLAC through the headphone out of the laptop doesn't sound as good as the CD player just playing the CD. Apple output sounds less "alive."

How are you just playing the CD through your Macbook? If you are not driving the headphones from the Macbook when making the comparison, then it's not really a valid comparison (that's before we get into level matching, sighted bias and double blind listening tests).

With respect to audibility of thresholds of distortion and noise, have a look through this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-thresholds-of-amp-and-dac-measurements.5734/

 

[virtua]

How are you just playing the CD through your Macbook? If you are not driving the headphones from the Macbook when making the comparison, then it's not really a valid comparison (that's before we get into level matching, sighted bias and double blind listening tests).

With respect to audibility of thresholds of distortion and noise, have a look through this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-thresholds-of-amp-and-dac-measurements.5734/

In this case, they would be playing the CD on their Macbook in an audio player, then outputting the signal from the line out/headphone out via 3.5mm to RCA to their tube amp, then comparing that to their CD Player output (through RCA). Provided there is no signal processing on either and the level is matched they should sound exactly the same.

 

[mc.god]

Could it be something related to output level, where macbook 3.5 out probably not delivering 2V and his tube amp having too low input sensitivity?
I know nothing about mac but none of my notebook pc can go much beyond 1V.

 

[420jjjazz666]

In this case, they would be playing the CD on their Macbook in an audio player, then outputting the signal from the line out/headphone out via 3.5mm to RCA to their tube amp, then comparing that to their CD Player output (through RCA). Provided there is no signal processing on either and the level is matched they should sound exactly the same.

That's not it exactly.

What I'm saying is that playing the actual CD on my Onkyo CD player sounds better (to my ears, on my system) than playing a .FLAC rip of the CD using my computer's 3.5mm output.

In both cases, the sources are connected to my amplifier's line-level RCA inputs.

 

[virtua]

That's not it exactly.

What I'm saying is that playing the actual CD on my Onkyo CD player sounds better (to my ears, on my system) than playing a .FLAC rip of the CD using my computer's 3.5mm output.

In both cases, the sources are connected to my amplifier's line-level RCA inputs.

Using a FLAC rip will be functionally the same as the audio data is the same, the difference will be in the DAC. As @mc.god said it's possible that the computers output is providing half of the voltage that the CD player is, which would cause it to be 3db less in volume. Even if you change it afterwards to match by ear (or even exactly by multimeter), it's not really reliable because our auditory memory isn't long enough to reliably compare them without some form of instantaneous switching. I used to do this personally, even going out of my way to match volume outputs exactly via multimeter, but just the time I spent switching between them doing that alone between each amp and DAC still made me think there was a difference, it wasn't until I got a AB switcher that I realised the difference wasn't actually there. In your case a difference could still very well be there, but given the use case as a line out source to a tube amp it's quite a forgiving situation (compared to using headphones from that output) and there's not too many negative aspects that could affect the sound as a line out source outside of likely having half the voltage.

As @Berwhale said, there's also other matters you have to consider, like sighted listening tests affecting our perception due to being influenced by seeing the devices themselves and subconsciously or consciously associating one or the other with better or different sound, which then makes us hear it that way.

But, at the end of the day it's your call, and you won't be out too much cash if you get the Atom DAC even if just for peace of mind. It's a good bit of gear.