Reliable Copper Banana Plugs in Europe?

[JeffS7444]

You really don't want pure copper connectors, because it's not very a very hard-wearing metal unless you alloy it with something else. And oxidized copper isn't a particularly good conductor compared with silver or other metals. And yes, I have used binding posts and RCA connectors milled from heavy copper billet, and I wouldn't buy them again.

When you hear audiophiles stress the need for non-magnetic connectors and component leads, you should be mindful of BS. And if words like "hysteresis" are used, run away!

 

[Roland68]

Nearly all gold played and silver plated parts have nickel underneath, its prevents the plating from diffusing into the copper and exposing it to air, humidity and prevents corrosion.

Worrying about plug conductivity is a waste of time. Think of all the solder in a circuit, it's conductivity rating is about 15% that of copper. A few fractions of a miliohm is a none issue.

When silver plating copper and brass, a nickel layer is not normally used because they are ideal materials for silver plating and no barrier layer is required.
Unfortunately, that doesn't mean there isn't a nickel layer.

The additional resistance of the thin nickel layer under the gold plating is unlikely to reach a significant value and can only be measured with precision measuring devices.
We use 4mm connectors with nickel plating in high-energy applications in our industrial products, where pulse currents in the kA range are transmitted at approx. 1 kV. Gold plating or silver plating makes no difference.

 

[olieb]

Iron (or maybe some steel alloys) add distortion, anywhere from 0-3 dB or more.

How do you know?
Your link does not show that. There two different amps with different connectors are shown. There is a difference but that can be due to a lot of things. First there are differences between otherwise nearly identical channels with identical connectors.
And then there is a different curve for a different measurements with two different amp with a different number of channels and the difference is not an increase in distortion.
Here is the overlay of the two measurements.

Distortion (on a very low level) is lower around 30 W (even for the worse channel) and higher above 70W output with "steel connectors". Now, do these connectors increase or decrease distortion? Or maybe it is just something else?

 

[howard416]

How do you know?
Your link does not show that. There two different amps with different connectors are shown. There is a difference but that can be due to a lot of things. First there are differences between otherwise nearly identical channels with identical connectors.
And then there is a different curve for a different measurements with two different amp with a different number of channels and the difference is not an increase in distortion.
Here is the overlay of the two measurements.
View attachment 339622
Distortion (on a very low level) is lower around 30 W (even for the worse channel) and higher above 70W output with "steel connectors". Now, do these connectors increase or decrease distortion? Or maybe it is just something else?

It's the two red lines. I'm not sure where you're going with this, since it clearly shows a difference of 2-4 dB between the two red lines. Unless your point is that there can be random significant variation in distortion performance between same-model amps... which is obviously possible, but Buckeye Amps clearly admitted that there was an issue with distortion being measurably worse than expected and that the problem was isolated to binding posts with steel tabs. If you don't believe it, you don't have to challenge me, do your own reading.

 

[bgravato]

I use AmazonBasics banana plugs and I think they're quite nice.
They often go on sale (I think I bought mine with 50% discount, for something like €0.50 each IIRC). Great value IMHO.

Are they attracted by a strong magnet? Yes they are (slightly).
Do I care about that? Not at all...
Would I like to have 100% copper banana plugs? Not really... oxidation will have a much worse effect in the mid/long term.

But if you believe it can make a noticeable difference, I suggest you try some healing crystals... place one near each banana plug and it will greatly improve the sound (so I heard... I haven't tested it yet myself, since I'm a non-believer).

Regarding your math... you're doing it wrong... if you want to somehow calculate a "percentage" of how much the increase in resistance may affect sound, the cable resistance shouldn't be your reference... but rather the speaker "resistance". So if the speaker is 4Ω and the plug resistance is 0.0015Ω, then its impact is 0.0015/4*100 = 0.0375%
Do you think that would be a noticeable difference?

 

[MCH]

How do you know?
Your link does not show that. There two different amps with different connectors are shown. There is a difference but that can be due to a lot of things. First there are differences between otherwise nearly identical channels with identical connectors.
And then there is a different curve for a different measurements with two different amp with a different number of channels and the difference is not an increase in distortion.
Here is the overlay of the two measurements.
View attachment 339622
Distortion (on a very low level) is lower around 30 W (even for the worse channel) and higher above 70W output with "steel connectors". Now, do these connectors increase or decrease distortion? Or maybe it is just something else?

Regarding the previous reference to the binding posts issues on buckeye amps, the amps/graphs to compare would be the following:

Bad binding posts tabs material:

Same amp, more appropriate binding posts tabs material:

One can claim that it is inaudible, but the measured difference is very significant with ca. 30db difference when at full power.

 

[Roland68]

I use AmazonBasics banana plugs and I think they're quite nice.
They often go on sale (I think I bought mine with 50% discount, for something like €0.50 each IIRC). Great value IMHO.

Are they attracted by a strong magnet? Yes they are (slightly).
Do I care about that? Not at all...
Would I like to have 100% copper banana plugs? Not really... oxidation will have a much worse effect in the mid/long term.

But if you believe it can make a noticeable difference, I suggest you try some healing crystals... place one near each banana plug and it will greatly improve the sound (so I heard... I haven't tested it yet myself, since I'm a non-believer).

Regarding your math... you're doing it wrong... if you want to somehow calculate a "percentage" of how much the increase in resistance may affect sound, the cable resistance shouldn't be your reference... but rather the speaker "resistance". So if the speaker is 4Ω and the plug resistance is 0.0015Ω, then its impact is 0.0015/4*100 = 0.0375%
Do you think that would be a noticeable difference?

It's not about resistance, the influence is initially negligible.
But a nickel coating in conjunction with a resistor through which an alternating signal flows certainly has no frequency-dependent influence
With a system costing a few hundred €/$ I can still understand that. But with a high-quality system, regardless of the price range, where you may have spent weeks or months looking for the best components, do you save 50 or 100 bucks on the connectors?
At this point I personally don't care whether the influence is audible or inaudible, I simply exclude this influence from my system.
But that's just my personal opinion that no one else has to share.

 

[dualazmak]

Somewhat related audible (at least for me, in my setup) issues on my project thread which I have already resolved;
- Elimination of magnetic susceptible metals in SP signal handling: #250

I (we) also discussed this topic here and here on another thread.

 

[amper42]

I have been using the Monoprice Affinity Series 24k Gold Speaker Banana Plugs. They feature a dual screw fastening system that accepts bare speaker wire from 10 to 18 AWG. Each pair comes with one plug color coded red and the other coded black, for easy polarity identification. The plug body is made of copper fitted with a ferromanganese tip. The entire plug is then plated with gold to help prevent corrosion.

I attach Belden 5000UP 12 AWG 2C Cable to the plugs. I was surprised the cable price has increased by 50% since I purchased it two years ago, while the Affinity Series 24k Banana plugs are about the same price.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21917

Home

Belden 5000UP 12 AWG 2C Cable Hi-Flex In-Wall Speaker Wire CL3 250 ft. USAFor extra flexibility and efficiency, choose Belden 5000UP 12 AWG professional 2-conductor wire. Its finely-stranded pure copper conductors and heavy-duty PVC jacket construction mean that 5000UP is an excellent cable...

www.parts-express.com

 

[Roland68]

I have been using the Monoprice Affinity Series 24k Gold Speaker Banana Plugs. They feature a dual screw fastening system that accepts bare speaker wire from 10 to 18 AWG. Each pair comes with one plug color coded red and the other coded black, for easy polarity identification. The plug body is made of copper fitted with a ferromanganese tip. The entire plug is then plated with gold to help prevent corrosion.

I attach Belden 5000UP 12 AWG 2C Cable to the plugs. I was surprised the cable price has increased by 50% since I purchased it two years ago, while the Affinity Series 24k Banana plugs are about the same price.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21917

Home

Belden 5000UP 12 AWG 2C Cable Hi-Flex In-Wall Speaker Wire CL3 250 ft. USAFor extra flexibility and efficiency, choose Belden 5000UP 12 AWG professional 2-conductor wire. Its finely-stranded pure copper conductors and heavy-duty PVC jacket construction mean that 5000UP is an excellent cable...

www.parts-express.com

Ferromanganese is a master alloy made of iron, manganese and carbon, I have no idea why something like that would be used in an audio connector.
Since the gold plating is shiny, there will also be a layer of nickel underneath.

 

[amper42]

Ferromanganese is a master alloy made of iron, manganese and carbon, I have no idea why something like that would be used in an audio connector.
Since the gold plating is shiny, there will also be a layer of nickel underneath.

Are there specific banana plugs you would recommend?

 

[Killingbeans]

I have no idea why something like that would be used in an audio connector.

Springiness would be my guess.

 

[Killingbeans]

My favorite plugs are made of brass and has a stainless steel spring. The horror!

 

[NTK]

I have no idea why something like that would be used in an audio connector.

See spring steel. Unalloyed copper does not have sufficient strength to be used a springs.

Spring steel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You can get non-magnetic electrically conductive copper alloy springs made from brass (copper zinc alloy), bronze (copper tin alloy), and beryllium copper (copper beryllium alloy).

Spring Material Options | Lee Spring

Lee Spring offers an extensive selection of material and finish options for stock and custom springs, such as alloys, steels and composite materials.

www.leespring.com

 

[Roland68]

Springiness would be my guess.

But then that didn't work.
I have had plugs of this design from several companies, and this type is the worst in terms of contact and contact resistance that I have ever had on my workbench, especially different from plug to plug.
The contact/clamping force is really not good. The plugs consist of several parts that are not really connected well, some of them even felt wobbly...
Soldering at the connection point resulted in significantly better measurements.
I would always prefer a hollow banana plug.

 

[howard416]

Mundorf Banana Plugs

Parts Connexion

partsconnexion.com

 

[Roland68]

See spring steel. Unalloyed copper does not have sufficient strength to be used a springs.

Spring steel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 339886

You can get non-magnetic electrically conductive copper alloy springs made from brass (copper zinc alloy), bronze (copper tin alloy), and beryllium copper (copper beryllium alloy).

Spring Material Options | Lee Spring

Lee Spring offers an extensive selection of material and finish options for stock and custom springs, such as alloys, steels and composite materials.

www.leespring.com

This is exactly why renowned connector manufacturers such as Stäubli (formerly Multikontakt) have been using beryllium copper for their high-quality contact springs for over 30 years, e.g. in the LS410.
I still have some from the 80s that have been plugged in a few hundred times and are still better (clamping force/contact resistance) than many cheap audio speaker plugs.

 

[NTK]

This is exactly why renowned connector manufacturers such as Stäubli (formerly Multikontakt) have been using beryllium copper for their high-quality contact springs for over 30 years, e.g. in the LS410.
I still have some from the 80s that have been plugged in a few hundred times and are still better (clamping force/contact resistance) than many cheap audio speaker plugs.

Yes. I also use their Multilam technology in systems in my (previous) day job.

MULTILAM Technology

Electrical contact systems in energy applications as well as our own products benefit from the unique performance of the MULTILAM Technology.

www.staubli.com

 

[Roland68]

Are there specific banana plugs you would recommend?

I have now tested a large number of speaker (banana) plugs for screwing. Until now, all gold-plated or rhodium-plated plugs that were priced below the "INAKUSTIK BFA-103 HOLLOW BANANAS REFERENCE RHODIUM" were magnetic. The only gold-plated and screwed plugs that were not magnetic are the "WBT 0610 CU NEXTGEN™", but all replicas of them are also magnetic.

So far, the only non-magnetic plugs that can be screwed on are:
- INAKUSTIK BFA-103 HOLLOW BANANA REFERENCE RHODIUM
- INAKUSTIK BFA103 - ANGLED 45° - HOLLOW BANANA REFERENCE RHODIUM
- WBT 0610 CU NEXTGEN™ - PLASMAPROTECT™ BANANA PLUG
- WBT-0610 AG NEXTGEN™ BANANA PLUG

Cheap and Chinese plugs that are rhodium-plated often (always always!) have a nickel layer underneath the rhodium plating. The reason is simple, rhodium is expensive. A wafer-thin (and therefore cheap) rhodium layer on nickel looks real and flaws and wear are not visible. On copper, with such a thin rhodium layer, you can quickly spot flaws in the coating and wear.

When it comes to soldered hollow bananas, all uncoated ones were made of copper and all silver-plated ones were nickel-free and non-magnetic. All gold-plated ones were magnetic.

All gold-plated ferrules I have had in my hand so far (5 different manufacturers/sources) have been magnetic.

Of course, that doesn't mean that there aren't other gold-plated or rhodium-plated plugs that are nickel-free and non-magnetic. However, you should get away from the idea of finding this in cheap plugs, as both coatings without nickel are x times more expensive, even more expensive than the actual plug.

 

[bgravato]

With a system costing a few hundred €/$ I can still understand that. But with a high-quality system, regardless of the price range, where you may have spent weeks or months looking for the best components, do you save 50 or 100 bucks on the connectors?
At this point I personally don't care whether the influence is audible or inaudible, I simply exclude this influence from my system.
But that's just my personal opinion that no one else has to share.

Well I guess that if you can spend thousands of $/€ in your equipment, spending an extra 100 or 200 on cables/connectors isn't going to have much impact on your wallet...

Since I'm on that group of people that doesn't have very deep pockets and my system in the "hundreds" range only... I'm on the opinion that spending (way) more than 1 $/€ on a banana plug, that has no proven benefit, is just a pointless waste of money...

I'd really like to see some real measurements on this, to see how much impact (if any) this can have on a (high end) system...