Rega Planar 3 - Would I Hear The Difference?

[Connor1a]

Hi

I currently have a Fluance RT85 in a chain as follows:

RT85 -> Waxwing -> WiiM Ultra -> NCx500 monoblocks -> Warfedale Linton Heritage 85s

Dreaming and scheming… I always value your advice.

All things being equal, were I to purchase a Rega Planar 3, would I hear a meaningful difference in my quality of sound? Let’s say, from a measurement perspective (vs qualitative). ** This is versus perhaps buying a sub for my Lintons.

My gut feel is “no”. That is, the Rega is clearly the superior turntable. I don’t think anyone would debate that. However, considering the Ortofon 2M Blue cart on the Fluance deck, the inherently “lossy” vinyl medium, my using the Waxwing as a preamp (optical ADC + DSP going through to the WiiM’s DAC to the NCx500s etc), and the limitations of my speakers, would the Rega pull out that much better sound? Or would it be another of those diminishing returns situations where yes, the Rega chain would measure better, but the resulting metrics improvement would only be in a +/- 3% range (I’m making up the number to make the point). ** For the record, I’ve looked for manufacturer specifications such as wow & flutter / SNR / etc. Evidently, Rega doesn’t publish them. Perhaps I’ve missed them somewhere?

What do you think? As always, thanks much!

 

[antcollinet]

Hi

I currently have a Fluance RT85 in a chain as follows:

RT85 -> Waxwing -> WiiM Ultra -> NCx500 monoblocks -> Warfedale Linton Heritage 85s

Dreaming and scheming… I always value your advice.

All things being equal, were I to purchase a Rega Planar 3, would I hear a meaningful difference in my quality of sound? Let’s say, from a measurement perspective (vs qualitative). ** This is versus perhaps buying a sub for my Lintons.

My gut feel is “no”. That is, the Rega is clearly the superior turntable. I don’t think anyone would debate that. However, considering the Ortofon 2M Blue cart on the Fluance deck, the inherently “lossy” vinyl medium, my using the Waxwing as a preamp (optical ADC + DSP going through to the WiiM’s DAC to the NCx500s etc), and the limitations of my speakers, would the Rega pull out that much better sound? Or would it be another of those diminishing returns situations where yes, the Rega chain would measure better, but the resulting metrics improvement would only be in a +/- 3% range (I’m making up the number to make the point). ** For the record, I’ve looked for manufacturer specifications such as wow & flutter / SNR / etc. Evidently, Rega doesn’t publish them. Perhaps I’ve missed them somewhere?

What do you think? As always, thanks much!

I have the RP3. I love it. I also have the waxwing.

But I doubt very much it would offer a noticeable sound improvement compared with your RT85. As you say the limitations of the format will swamp any minor variations in turntable.

I'd love to compare my RP3 with one of the stupid expensive turntables we see all over the place. I'd be prepared to bet I'd either not hear a difference, or that if I dd, it would be so insignificant as to be not worth worrying about.

 

[Mean & Green]

Unless your Fluance has audible motor hum picked up by the stylus and is amplified through the system or has poor speed/pitch stability - no the Rega won’t give you any audible improvements. As you’ve pointed out the 2M blue you have is already a good performer, it tracks well and as far as cartridges go it is pretty well balanced.

Rega has a bit of a mixed reputation, some swear by them and others have had poor experiences. Their lack of published specs has always concerned me.

If you’re considering this or a subwoofer, definitely get a subwoofer.

 

[Tom C]

IMO, the Rega will not be audibly better. I’ve owned an RP3. Gave it to my son some years ago. I wouldn’t expect to be able to hear a difference between that and the other turntables I’ve owned, if everything else (cartridge, phono stage, etc.) were the same. Just make sure the drive belt on your turntable and the stylus in your cartridge are not worn out. Those items need to be replaced periodically.
You’re going to get much more for your money by adding a subwoofer to your system. That is worth doing.

 

[Connor1a]

I have the RP3. I love it. I also have the waxwing.

But I doubt very much it would offer a noticeable sound improvement compared with your RT85. As you say the limitations of the format will swamp any minor variations in turntable.

I'd love to compare my RP3 with one of the stupid expensive turntables we see all over the place. I'd be prepared to bet I'd either not hear a difference, or that if I dd, it would be so insignificant as to be not worth worrying about.

My suspicion is that while the Waxwing ADC / DSP is / are extremely well behaved, it’s still massaging data coming off the shiny black discs. Even if it’s near perfect, it’s going to be taking out (or de-emphasizing) at least a small number of the differentiators between the decks (meaning I wouldn’t be hearing them when compared). I have a circa ‘80s rock album that it almost miraculously re-rendered for me such that I can again enjoy a favorite album I thought I’d lost to time. I mean, the Magic setting is something else. However, it did so at the cost of dynamics (or rather, the dynamic information is gone from the disc and Waxwing is compensating for that). Regardless, I think the comparison between the decks would be compromised. If that makes sense… Thank you for the reply!

 

[Connor1a]

IMO, the Rega will not be audibly better. I’ve owned an RP3. Gave it to my son some years ago. I wouldn’t expect to be able to hear a difference between that and the other turntables I’ve owned, if everything else (cartridge, phono stage, etc.) were the same. Just make sure the drive belt on your turntable and the stylus in your cartridge are not worn out. Those items need to be replaced periodically.
You’re going to get much more for your money by adding a subwoofer to your system. That is worth doing.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Eleo]

Get one or two small subs. I have the Lintons too and adding a couple of subs made a big difference to fix room modes

 

[Connor1a]

Unless your Fluance has audible motor hum picked up by the stylus and is amplified through the system or has poor speed/pitch stability - no the Rega won’t give you any audible improvements. As you’ve pointed out the 2M blue you have is already a good performer, it tracks well and as far as cartridges go it is pretty well balanced.

Rega has a bit of a mixed reputation, some swear by them and others have had poor experiences. Their lack of published specs has always concerned me.

If you’re considering this or a subwoofer, definitely get a subwoofer.

The biggest issue I have with my turntable, quality of the record pressings to one side, is that I live in an old house and you can sometimes hear my footsteps reverberated through the tonearm. The floors are very old. I’ve tried to “decouple” the turntable via cork blocks and a decoupling platform to no avail. My only other idea at this point is to bolt a shelf into a wall, but that opens a whole host of different issues due to where the turntable is placed (on an entertainment center under a TV - so wall space isn’t immediately available)… Matching the sub will be a different post. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Connor1a]

Get one or two small subs. I have the Lintons too and adding a couple of subs made a big difference to fix room modes

If I may, which subs did you go with? I was thinking about a powered sub connected to my WiiM Ultra. The SVS brand seems to get a lot of recommendations…

 

[DSJR]

The main difference I suspect is the tonearm!

The RB330 arm is amongst the best performing of any tonearm out there in *commercial audio* land, although it's limited in terms of VTA, which Rega's owner insists isn't as important with many styli as audiophiles insist it should be (VTA can actually be fine-tuned with tracking weight of a tenth of a gramme each way, but I digress). An old-fashioned S shaped arm with detachable SME(Ortofon) headshell will always have a weakness in the lower midrange frequencies as tested mercilessly over the decades in HiFi Choice and other publications I'm sure, but either 'we' can't hear it, or audiophiles are in denial and I'm still brainwashed into thinking a more solid connection (or none at all as in the case of the Rega 330 arm) is better for reproduction...

The Planar 2 and 3 are now rather lightweight if rigid constructions, which should be good in terms of feedback and energy retention in the plinth, but quality of bass reproduction is entirely dependent still on what they're placed on and the position of nearby speakers.. The lids should ALWAYS be removed when playing (I'd with suggest the Fluance decks too). I don't believe the slightly fast running of 'stock' Rega 2 and 3 models has been dealt with (I thought it had in the '2000 era' models, but a recent 24V example I set up, seemed to have reverted back), so for me at any rate, a Neo supply which offers fine speed adjustment, is essential (there's a version of the '3' now offering this as standard, but I believe it comes with one of their currently untested new MM cartridges). They do better belts to improve wow figures, but fine-speed tuning from the Neo supply is essential with these I personally feel.

You know, and speaking as an ex Rega dealer, I'd arguably suggest a Technics these days, or maybe (and patriotically trying to help a UK company) a Rega 6 instead, which has a massier platter, Neo as standard and to my subjective side, a slightly more 'flowing' reproduction quality with better bass reproduction, which may well be personal to me only.... Even with the 'Techie' though, careful and lidless-when-playing siting, is still a must.


P.S. Back in the day, we did a great business in wall shelves for turntables if the wall was a solid one able to take the weight safely. Again, bass improved and the then popular 'bouncy sub chassis' types were much improved in stability terms. If that's out of the question, maybe some sorbothane or similar 'boots' on the existing feet may help with footfall issues?

 

[HalSF]

If I may, which subs did you go with? I was thinking about a powered sub connected to my WiiM Ultra. The SVS brand seems to get a lot of recommendations…

Just butting in to say I recently got the SVS SB-1000 Pro and love it. The granular control afforded by the controller app is a brilliant asset and makes it a very Audio Science Review component IMO.

p.s. Every sub discussion these days defaults to the recommendation that you need two of them. Good research supports this. I decline because a second sub in my smallish listening room would be overkill and exacerbate the tight quarters and clutter issue (plus $$$).

p.s.s I also have a Rega Planar 3 (with the essential Groovetracer subplatter) and am very happy with it.

 

[antcollinet]

it’s still massaging data coming off the shiny black discs.

I disagree - at least no more than any other typical phono pre.

The ADC/DAC steps are going to be 100% transparent to anything coming of a shiny black disk. After that you are talking about filtering, and I'd suggest digtal filters at 24/96 are going to be more performant than the analogue equivalents, and therefore "taking out (or de-emphasizing)" less of the difference compared to an analogue pre.

The only exception I''d agree on is the "magic" function: If one turntable is less well behaved on surface defects, then the magic function might hide that deficiency.

 

[Mean & Green]

The biggest issue I have with my turntable, quality of the record pressings to one side, is that I live in an old house and you can sometimes hear my footsteps reverberated through the tonearm. The floors are very old. I’ve tried to “decouple” the turntable via cork blocks and a decoupling platform to no avail. My only other idea at this point is to bolt a shelf into a wall, but that opens a whole host of different issues due to where the turntable is placed (on an entertainment center under a TV - so wall space isn’t immediately available)… Matching the sub will be a different post. Thank you for the reply.

Wall mounting would be your best option.

Do you use the turntable with the lid removed? If not give it a try.

 

[Connor1a]

p.s. Every sub discussion these days defaults to the recommendation that you need two of them. Good research supports this. I decline because a second sub in my smallish listening room would be overkill and exacerbate the tight quarters and clutter issue.

Yeah - There’s almost no chance I’d be able to get 2 subs in my space unless they were extremely small. Then, I’d be using the Sub-Out port on my WiiM Ultra. Does that carry right and left channel segmentation? I’d most likely be like you and only be able to support one sub…

 

[Connor1a]

Wall mounting would be your best option.

Do you use the turntable with the lid removed? If not give it a try.

Yes, I use it without the lid though it’s a curse. I bought the “piano black” version of the deck and dust is the devil.

I agree with wall mounting. It’s the only way to escape the foot traffic when the deck is playing unless I’m sitting and simply listening (which to be fair is generally the case). I’ve been avoiding it as the shelf unit I’ve found is 200$ and I’ve been too cheap to buy it + it’s not a particularly attractive shelf (very utilitarian - see below).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C7RXFRJ5/ref=sw_img_1?smid=A2763VQ7SN6URD&psc=1

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Eleo]

If I may, which subs did you go with? I was thinking about a powered sub connected to my WiiM Ultra. The SVS brand seems to get a lot of recommendations…

I have two small Yamaha subs. But my aim was not to extend the low end, since the Lintons in my room go down to 30 hz. My problem was that of flattening the response. And I must say adding two subs delayed of 7 ms did the job. It required some measurements but the result is very good IMHO

 

[Connor1a]

But my aim was not to extend the low end, since the Lintons in my room go down to 30 hz

I see the same when my WiiM does its room measurements. I can also feel it in the seat of my pants too. However, the the response line is fairly jagged on the low end. I’ll do another room equalization and post the picture here. You were able to take a smaller sub and just fill in the “troughs” so to speak?

 

[Connor1a]

My problem was that of flattening the response.

This is what my room correction looks like after the WiiM has done its magic. You can see how jagged / off target the low end is. Were I to add a sub(s), my hope is that it’d be able to even out those low end troughs… I’ve only just started moving the speakers around, but I don’t have much that I can do in terms of placement from their back walls which may be (?) some of the issue. I mean, I can put them closer to the wall, but I can’t do much to move them out further. I can also change the axis +/- 10 or so degrees, but I believe that does more to affect the upper range than the lower… I may tinker with that later today…

 

[Eleo]

This is what my room correction looks like after the WiiM has done its magic. You can see how jagged / off target the low end is. Were I to add a sub(s), my hope is that it’d be able to even out those low end troughs… I’ve only just started moving the speakers around, but I don’t have much that I can do in terms of placement from their back walls which may be (?) some of the issue. I mean, I can put them closer to the wall, but I can’t do much to move them out further. I can also change the axis +/- 10 or so degrees, but I believe that does more to affect the upper range than the lower… I may tinker with that later today…

View attachment 414275

See my measurements without and with subs. As I said I have two small and cheap Yamaha subwoofer. However, I'm not sure that better subs would bring audible benefits in my situation. They are equalized and delayed through a Dayton dsp box while mains are equalized with EQ Apo by a minipc

 

[BeeKay]

Wall mounting would be your best option.

This and/or a heavy base for the TT. Never put it on a piece of furniture alone.