Waxwing / WiiM Ultra Compatibility Issue

[Connor1a]

Has anyone successfully run a Waxwing through a WiiM Ultra at 24/48 or 24/96?

Having a vexing issue somewhere between my Waxwing and my WiiM Ultra. I’m connecting directly from the optical out on the Waxwing to the optical in on the WiiM. I’ve tried both the 24/48 and 24/96 configuration settings on the Waxwing. The WiiM only receives 16/48 and 16/96.

I know that the WiiM is capable of running at 24-bits. I have a Sonos Port which runs 24/48 off its coax out (I have a coax / optical switch) to the WiiM without complaint. So I don’t think this is a WiiM configuration issue or technical limitation.

Initial response from ParksAudio is that it could be the WiiM’s DAC (ES9038Q2M) stripping off the “least significant bits”, but I’m not following the logic. The WiiM’s DAC is taking its queues from the Waxwing. It’s not going to be stripping off data when its capable of 24/192.

Any ideas? I really want to love my Waxwing, but tbh, it’s been something of a pita for me. I’ve had clipping issues, noise floor issues, and now this. I’m ready to sell it and go back to my (much less expensive) Schiit Mani. I’d appreciate a lifeline…

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bob from Florida]

Has anyone successfully run a Waxwing through a WiiM Ultra at 24/48 or 24/96?

Having a vexing issue somewhere between my Waxwing and my WiiM Ultra. I’m connecting directly from the optical out on the Waxwing to the optical in on the WiiM. I’ve tried both the 24/48 and 24/96 configuration settings on the Waxwing. The WiiM only receives 16/48 and 16/96.

I know that the WiiM is capable of running at 24-bits. I have a Sonos Port which runs 24/48 off its coax out (I have a coax / optical switch) to the WiiM without complaint. So I don’t think this is a WiiM configuration issue or technical limitation.

Initial response from ParksAudio is that it could be the WiiM’s DAC (ES9038Q2M) stripping off the “least significant bits”, but I’m not following the logic. The WiiM’s DAC is taking its queues from the Waxwing. It’s not going to be stripping off data when its capable of 24/192.

Any ideas? I really want to love my Waxwing, but tbh, it’s been something of a pita for me. I’ve had clipping issues, noise floor issues, and now this. I’m ready to sell it and go back to my (much less expensive) Schiit Mani. I’d appreciate a lifeline…

Thanks in advance!

I run my Waxwing into a Schiit Modius DAC with no issues. Try connecting to a different DAC that supports 24/48 and 24/96. If that works, ask WiiM for assistance. Regarding noise, my Waxwing is very quiet and using optical output breaks any potential ground loops. Clipping issues are caused by too much gain relative to your cartridge. Monitor your real time ADC input Peak values in the App and adjust the gain to have Peak values of -10 db and you won't clip the input to the ADC.
I found the Waxwing to be quite easy to use.

 

[morillon]

Post in thread 'Introducing PocketADC, a tiny Audiophile Analog to Digital converter.' https://www.minidsp.com/community/t...-analog-to-digital-converter.23540/post-73679

 

[somebodyelse]

At this point I'd be looking at something to find out what's actually in the spdif signal, like Sigrok's spdif protocol decoder. I think it would work with a Raspberry Pi Pico, or one of the cheap USB logic capture devices listed under supported hardware. Add a toslink receiver and you should be good to go.

 

[Connor1a]

So an update from ParksAudio w/ a clue.

Evidently, there’s a known issue where the WiiM will report an incoming data stream as 16-bit when it receives unexpected / incorrectly formatted metadata from the source. From what I’ve read, the data stream remains 24-bit (it’s not downsampled). WiiM only reports it as 16-bit on the app / screen.

Without following @somebodyelse’s suggestion of going into the SPDIF’s signal itself, I’m not sure how to prove this is the case one way of the other. However, I can see where the WiiM is reporting a change in the LPCM data stream going from 1536 kbps to 3072 kbps as I switch the Waxwing from 24/48 to 24/96. It’s definitely picking up changes to the data stream. Perhaps that indicates that the data stream is indeed 24-bit. I don’t know. The chipset on the Waxwing is an older variety (a circa 6 year old STMicroelectronics chipset). Perhaps it’s not sending the metadata the WiiM is looking for, but is still sending the full 24 bits… Does that sound reasonable?

 

[DVDdoug]

1536 kbps to 3072 kbps

If you trust that:
16-bits x 48kHz x 2 Chanels = 1536
16 x 96 x 2 = 3072

As a practical matter, 16-bits has something like 30dB more dynamic range than vinyl. And 44.1 or 44.1kHz digital is flatter than vinyl over the audio range, although vinyl may go into the ultrasonic range.

 

[Brian Hall]

Has anyone successfully run a Waxwing through a WiiM Ultra at 24/48 or 24/96?

Having a vexing issue somewhere between my Waxwing and my WiiM Ultra. I’m connecting directly from the optical out on the Waxwing to the optical in on the WiiM. I’ve tried both the 24/48 and 24/96 configuration settings on the Waxwing. The WiiM only receives 16/48 and 16/96.

I know that the WiiM is capable of running at 24-bits. I have a Sonos Port which runs 24/48 off its coax out (I have a coax / optical switch) to the WiiM without complaint. So I don’t think this is a WiiM configuration issue or technical limitation.

Initial response from ParksAudio is that it could be the WiiM’s DAC (ES9038Q2M) stripping off the “least significant bits”, but I’m not following the logic. The WiiM’s DAC is taking its queues from the Waxwing. It’s not going to be stripping off data when its capable of 24/192.

Any ideas? I really want to love my Waxwing, but tbh, it’s been something of a pita for me. I’ve had clipping issues, noise floor issues, and now this. I’m ready to sell it and go back to my (much less expensive) Schiit Mani. I’d appreciate a lifeline…

Thanks in advance!

I use a Waxwing. I have connected it to the RCA input on the Wiim Ultra and also tried optical. I didn't pay any attention to the bit rate. There is no record that would require or benefit from 24 bits.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Does that sound reasonable?

No. SPDIF is always a 32 bit package, 8 bit preamble, 24 bit payload.

16-bits x 48kHz x 2 Chanels = 1536

Indeed it receives 16 bit.

The only thing you can do is trying another DAC with a display. If this again shows 16 bit, it is a limitation of the Waxwing.

 

[Connor1a]

Turns out that there’s a minor incompatibility between the WiiM and the Waxwing related to how the sample rate is setup when the devices connect. Per Shannon Parks:

“The Waxwing's header data of "0000" in bits 32-35 of the header indicates "Sampling Rate Not Indicated" according to the actual specification, instead of "0001" (16-bits) or "1010" (24-bits).”

This seems to be throwing off the WiiM Ultra when it sets up the connection. There’s some debate as to whether this is a shortcoming on WiiM’s part or on the Waxwing’s, it could be argued either way, but Shannon is going to attempt a fix on her end sometime this fall.

But this appears to be the answer…

**** Edit: Ultimately, Parks Audio would not commit to a fix for this issue. Therefore, I’d consider it a known limitation of the preamp for the foreseeable future. That is, the current industry practice appears to be to use those 4 bits, the “0001” or “1010”, at the initiation of the S/PDIF connection to setup the bit depth. The Waxwing will only send “0000”, defaulting to 16-bit, until Parks Audio issues a firmware fix (this is not a hardware limitation). Disappointing for me as I was looking for the Waxwing to send 24-bit audio over S/PDIF. That’s what they claim to be able to do. As a result, I’m going to end up returning the preamp… On the positive, at least we know the root cause of the issue… Bummer…, but there you have it.