PS Audio PowerPlant P12 Amplifier Tests (Video)

[H-713]

Oh my, that PS Audio guy has no idea what he is talking about lol. He's tying himself into knots trying to explain how a better HDMI cable results in more vivd colors, sharper images... He has absolutely no clue!

Jeez... I mean, I'm not going to say that cheap HDMI cables have never caused me problems (HDMI is rather complex, and just because it "works" doesn't mean that it works under all conditions), but image quality? Yeah, that doesn't really make sense. Unless, of course, one of them is *really* dumpy and doesn't support 4k, which I have run into a few times. That's what I get for buying from Amazon.

 

[Angsty]

If I use an audiophile Ethernet cable will my p0rn be improved? Asking for a friend.

Absolutely not! For that, you’d need an Ethernet cable optimized for video!

You see, good ol’ Audioquest has you covered on audio-optimized Ethernet cables…

“For best results have the arrow pointing in the direction of the flow of music. For example, NAS to Router, Router to Network Player.”

AudioQuest Vodka RJ/E Ethernet Cable

Ethernet cables are now critical to the sound of digital systems. AudioQuest offers ones featuring better metals, critical signal-pair geometry, Noise-Dissipation System—all proven techniques for delivering superior digital audio.

upscaleaudio.com

 

[D700]

Nobody else noticed ;-)
View attachment 191643

Snekfat would make a great name for IKEA audio

 

[amirm]

You see, good ol’ Audioquest has you covered on audio-optimized Ethernet cables…

I actually bought one of theirs a while back for review!

 

[Glen20]

Oh man, on the PS Audio thread one of the PS Audio designers is spouting nonsense about how "better" (read more expensive) HDMI cables produce better image quality than standard HDMI cables. He's being "educated" by an EE who actually works with video, explaining why his claims make no sense given how HDMI and digital displays work. Even I knew enough to know this guy's claims were absurd! If I needed more reason not to take PS Audio too seriously....

The more you spend on a cable. The more the seller can spend on his/her tv to get a higher quality picture.

The opposite is true for the customer.

The more you spend on worthless “upgrade “ the less you can spend on a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[DonR]

The more you spend on a cable. The more the seller can spend on his/her tv to get a higher quality picture.

The opposite is true for the customer.

The more you spend on worthless “upgrade “ the less you can spend on a worthwhile upgrade.

From what I remember talking to a BB employee years ago, the "accessories" were where they made the highest profit as TVs were too competitively priced.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

Bad review of PS P12

@Paul just seen on the web this bad review I love PS Audio products and my aim is to let guys in Boulder reply to clarify what is needed. I use 2 P12s and I’m very happy, I am SURE about improvement in SQ but I have no technical background to say only a single word, just my empirical...

forum.psaudio.com

What a lovely start to the day.
A fresh coffee, a few of these comments...

From my perspective:
for 20 years I've not only hifi fan, but also electronic engineer.
Voodoo-boys simply don't want to understand, that electrical engineering,
has nothing to do with Voodoo...

Heinz Dürr once said:
-my opinion is clear, don't confuse me with facts-

 

[danielbaen]

Take a look at the youtube comments. A lot people are having "aha" moments and reconsidering purchase of such products. Our membership here is self selected and for the most part stays away from such. Not the larger audience. Indeed I am quite encouraged by the usefulness of our testing.

I think that the Audio Nerds was our group, the audiophiles, well no! This is just the tip of the iceberg!! Guitar and/or bass lovers are even worse than us!! able to distinguish and discard incredible sound changes in guitars due to some knot in the wood of the mast What a...!! and that's just the beginning. I would like someone like you to do real ACOUSTIC tests comparing guitars be they LT, SP, ST etc between $300 and $9000. Thank you and congratulations for the forum

 

[Endibol]

If you are reading the forum, you know that we have run a second round of tests measuring power amplifiers and internal impedance of the PS Audio P12 AC Regenerator. Company has also been responding to my review which we have discussed in that thread. I thought I do a wrap up video on this as well as people on youtube don't commonly read the text threads. And at any rate, the flavor of discussion comes out better in video. So here it is:

Discussion thread is here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-audio-p12-review-part-2-power-testing.31432/

It's pretty shocking to see that the CEO of PS Audio doesn't know that his company sells expensive snakeoil, but does have the guts to blame ASR to reveal this. I wonder who should make apologies to whom..

 

[KxDx]

If I use an audiophile Ethernet cable will my p0rn be improved? Asking for a friend.

I've never downloaded such films for their sound quality...

 

[TheBatsEar]

I've never downloaded such films for their sound quality...

 

[fcracer]

I wonder if the time has come for someone lawyered up to sue one of these companies peddling lies and fraudulent products. Maybe we can start a gofundme and make an example of one of these companies.

It’s sad that the US government doesn’t do anything to protect consumers from this. In the country I’m living in, companies are scared of the government and consumer laws have teeth.

 

[KxDx]

I wonder if the time has come for someone lawyered up to sue one of these companies peddling lies and fraudulent products. Maybe we can start a gofundme and make an example of one of these companies.

It’s sad that the US government doesn’t do anything to protect consumers from this. In the country I’m living in, companies are scared of the government and consumer laws have teeth.

Subjective opinions are hard to sue over. Besides, as has been shown, many of the owners claim that they can absolutely hear an improvement.

Now someone like Starke who straight up lies about their specs could face a lawsuit or actions if they don't make it right. That's why they offered a full refund regardless of purchase date. You have to be able to back up real performance numbers.

 

[laudio]

The whole topic of this review and getting people spun up is fascinating. The thread over at PS Audio has some of the most blatant shills I've ever read for a company, once they get outed they attempt to distract from the discussion and redirect with humor or even suggestions to close the thread. I hope they do that actually.

I've never owned anything like this other than a Monster Audio power center I found at the thrift store (and I know it's not a regenerator). It's useful to me because is has a nice look and some power sequencing capabilities and many outlets. That's about it, but draw maybe 50W from the wall too so don't like to leave it on all the time too.

I think most people don't need measurements to justify never buying a unit like this just because it costs to much, and common sense says it isn't really going to do anything for you.

But when you take on PS Audio's bread and butter... you have to expect stuff like this though. This post from the owner I just read is how a used car salesman dismisses things.

"
Well, you’re right Glimmie, we do have the same equipment and we already publish the specs from the units based on those measurements from that equipment. Why would we bother to do it again?

I am not sure who doesn’t believe our measurements. I am not a b ig fan of expensing energy in fighting a battle with someone who clearly has either a defective unit or doesn’t quite know what they are doing.

Either way, we have bigger fish to fry than too expend energy defending that which we already know to be correct.

We measure maybe 10 or so of these units a day in production. We have full documentation on every single unit ever produced. I won’t bother spending energy on this.

I think that over the past 50 years of honest work and equipment we’ve earned the trust of our customers."

 

[sweetsounds]

I think that the Audio Nerds was our group, the audiophiles, well no! This is just the tip of the iceberg!! Guitar and/or bass lovers are even worse than us!! able to distinguish and discard incredible sound changes in guitars due to some knot in the wood of the mast What a...!! and that's just the beginning. I would like someone like you to do real ACOUSTIC tests comparing guitars be they LT, SP, ST etc between $300 and $9000. Thank you and congratulations for the forum

There are plenty of user comparison for acoustic instruments and also scientific investigations on this.

Frequency Response Evaluation of Acoustic Guitar Modifications | Semantic Scholar

This paper investigates the effect of various modifications to an acoustic steel string guitar on low frequency dynamics and sound pressure level. Modifications include string tension, sound-hole area and depth, bridge pin mass, top plate mass, stiffness and damping. Frequency response...

www.semanticscholar.org

 

[Angsty]

I'm guess I'm old enough to not get worked up about the scam but can still appreciate exposing it. I've seen this play out so many times, so many ways. Remember the "Amazing Randi" challenge, anyone?

I grew up in the "Julian Hirsch" generation where testing of audio equipment came ahead of subjective reviews. In the past 20 years or so, that has been effectively reversed as the marketers now control the course of many reviews instead of the consumers.

 

[maverik_77]

Jeez... I mean, I'm not going to say that cheap HDMI cables have never caused me problems (HDMI is rather complex, and just because it "works" doesn't mean that it works under all conditions), but image quality? Yeah, that doesn't really make sense. Unless, of course, one of them is *really* dumpy and doesn't support 4k, which I have run into a few times. That's what I get for buying from Amazon.

There is a video on HDMI cables by LTT, quite informative as they used proper tester to prove not all cables are the same.

 

[brandall10]

There are plenty of user comparison for acoustic instruments and also scientific investigations on this.

Frequency Response Evaluation of Acoustic Guitar Modifications | Semantic Scholar

This paper investigates the effect of various modifications to an acoustic steel string guitar on low frequency dynamics and sound pressure level. Modifications include string tension, sound-hole area and depth, bridge pin mass, top plate mass, stiffness and damping. Frequency response...

www.semanticscholar.org

Instruments are complex, having a large organic component, and I've found with vintage guitars, there is some merit... the good ones have a quality that you can't seem to get in a new instrument. Not universal though, some are quite average and some simply sound bad, like they're worn out.

The guy you linked above, Paul Davids did a comparison with a wartime Martin and ended up with a quite different conclusion.

 

[Joppe Peelen]

There is a video on HDMI cables by LTT, quite informative as they used proper tester to prove not all cables are the same.

LTT, tested if a cable passed. not all cables are being able to pass 4k for instance. but cables of 3 euro that past performed exactly the same as the 100 euro ones. some expensive ones did not even pass. and some cheap ones passed above where they where rated for.

 

[DonR]

LTT, tested if a cable passed. not all cables are being able to pass 4k for instance. but cables of 3 euro that past performed exactly the same as the 100 euro ones. some expensive ones did not even pass. and some cheap ones passed above where they where rated for.

Yes, as with most things digital, it's either all go or no go. The nice thing about HDMI is that it can negotiate the link speed so even a poor quality cable may still be able to function in some capacity, like an audio link for ARC.