Power cable tech talk and a little help for Amir at Audio Science Review

[HoweSound]

To buy it with the intent to run a bunch of tests and then return it?

I don't think that's a very honest approach.

Actually it's value added burn-in time...

 

[BlackTalon]

Anyway, EU legislation gives consumers this right so if a consumer tests the product within the 14-day window and finds that it does not do anything for him, he can return it and receive a refund, no questions asked. If he then decides to publish his test results, this will save the vendor much trouble and grief with other returns, will it not?

Obviously you will not get positive results if testing within the 14 day return window, as that is not nearly enough time to burn on the cable... You need close to 3 months of continuously playing music to get to the 2,000 hour burn-in mark. And if the cable(s) get bumped/ jarred burning that time period, say by vacuuming or mopping the floor, you have to reset the burn-in clock to zero hours and begin again.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

afaic the measurements don't evven matter. We can meaasure all kinds of things we can't even come close to hearing. The claims being made about these cables is that they do something to change the sound in some notable, audible and beneficial way. Before I care if we can find some measureable difference in the signal, let's see some good evidence that theres any truth to those claims first. Because if there isn't any proof of those claims, who cares about measureable differences?

 

[Geert]

let's see some good evidence that theres any truth to those claims first

Don't get your hopes up too high. A quote from the video's comments: "all one has to do is plug it in and listen".

 

[Cuniberti]

afaic the measurements don't evven matter. We can meaasure all kinds of things we can't even come close to hearing. The claims being made about these cables is that they do something to change the sound in some notable, audible and beneficial way. Before I care if we can find some measureable difference in the signal, let's see some good evidence that theres any truth to those claims first. Because if there isn't any proof of those claims, who cares about measureable differences?

In this case, Danny's claim is his cables lower noise. But that can be measured. However, unlike his speaker measurements, Danny doesn't show us the results. He then jumps to the conclusion that lower noise will improve the audio presentation. The fact that all this "noise" is beyond our threshold of hearing doesn't get mentioned.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

In this case, Danny's claim is his cables lower noise. But that can be measured. However, unlike his speaker measurements, Danny doesn't show us the results. He then jumps to the conclusion that lower noise will improve the audio presentation. The fact that all this "noise" is beyond our threshold of hearing doesn't get mentioned.

Sure, but if all anyone ever did was go on audiophile forums and say "I bought these awesome new $350 cables for my system and they make a very slight measureable but completely inaudible difference in the sound quality" we wouldn't have really any debate at all generally. The problems arise from claims that "my new $350 cables make a really nice difference in the SQ of my system! I can hear details I never heard before...everything sounds so much clearer and more musical!" All I would like is to see some sort of proof of that basic claim before I worry about dragging out the highly-sensitive measurement gear. Because lets face it, even if the measurements are completely identical the claims will still be made...since, you know...we "don't measure everything" or whatever malarky substitutes for "magic."

 

[Gary_G]

I guess I'm confused. Why don't the manufacturers that design and sell 5K, 10K amps and pre-amps sell them with these special cables, already "burned" in? Are ALL the manufactures not that smart?!

 

[Doodski]

I guess I'm confused. Why don't the manufacturers that design and sell 5K, 10K amps and pre-amps sell them with these special cables, already "burned" in? Are ALL the manufactures not that smart?!

Touché @GaryG. Well laid out example.

 

[Chrispy]

Not sure why you'd draw that inference.

Seems to me his claims are no more likely to hold up than for any other high end cables.

The point is that "counter claims" by people like Danny give Amir (or others) another opportunity to explain to people what is wrong with those claims.
Which is informative.

Wasn't looking at it from that perspective, thanks.

 

[Hatto]

To buy it with the intent to run a bunch of tests and then return it?

I don't think that's a very honest approach.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Pay for it, test it, then return it if you're not satisfied.

That's the very reason return policy exists in the first place.

 

[khensu]

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Pay for it, test it, then return it if you're not satisfied.

That's the very reason return policy exists in the first place.

Also the reason they claim you need to burn cables in for 200 hours.

 

[Doodski]

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Pay for it, test it, then return it if you're not satisfied.

That's the very reason return policy exists in the first place.

As a reputable tester of gear I believe that @amirm decided to not go that route and to use as none confrontational as possible of a model for random testing of gear.

 

[Dialectic]

Is it just me, or is Danny getting jacked? Perhaps for a showdown with Amir in the octagon?

 

[Descartes]

But fun to witness it all play out.. -The truth will win eventually.

Veritas vos liberabit

 

[ahofer]

There it is.

 

[Doodski]

Is it just me, or is Danny getting jacked? Perhaps for a showdown with Amir in the octagon?

Even a old homemade flash video of them battling would be awesomely hilarious.

 

[ahofer]

I can see that point of view. Certainly back and forth stuff can get petty.

But done right, I think back and forth arguments can be quite illuminating for many. As Amir has often pointed out, what he writes often isn't to convince the other guy he's directly addressing, but provide information for those watching. Danny may not be able to change his mind, but plenty of audiophiles will watch videos from Danny and Amir, who may be convinced one way or another.

I'm a bit of a dunce when it comes to electricity, so even I would enjoy seeing Amir (or someone else knowledgeable) explaining where the errors are.

Me too, but if people don’t lay out their chain of reasoning and assumptions, it can be impossible to learn something.

 

[Doodski]

Me too, but if people don’t lay out their chain of reasoning and assumptions, it can be impossible to learn something.

For me I see the theory as being the achilles heel here. To understand the ins and outs of low frequency audio and high frequency RF in a cable one needs actual theory and not analogies that don't fit most of the time and have some sort of awkwardness to them and besides if learning an analogy then one might as well learn the actual stuff and stop beating around the bush.

 

[thecheapseats]

"Hello, I'd like to return this AC cable because it isn't UL tested"...

 

[Axo1989]

Also the reason they claim you need to burn cables in for 200 hours.

168 hours in a week, so do-able if a bit tight. Consumer law in Oz is better than that.

*meaning Australia, not where the wizard lives.