(Please recommend) Integrated amplifier with the bypass to let through the phono amplifier

[Thorgal]

Hey everyone!

So, I'm pretty new to the audio world, and I'm in a pickle of how to connect everything so it works as it should.
The situation is shown below in the picture:
1) the only place I can put the turntable is behind the sofa in the living room,
2) the length from the turntable to the integrated amp is more than 5m
3) that requires the amplification of the signal from the turntable before I send it with 7m long cables to the integrated amp (I hope it works on such a distance)
4) The integrated amp, on the other hand, needs to be in the place under the TV as it needs to be connected with the HDMI ARC to the TV, to the internet via cable and to KEF R3 Meta

Here are my questions to our honourable forum:
1) is there a way to bypass the signal from the turntable amp at the integrated amp so it goes directly to KEFs?
2) would this setup with the 7m long interconnects from the Rega ELEX to the amp and KEFs work at such a distance?
3) Last but not least: Can you recommend the amp, considering that I would like to have a nice warm sound, controlled bass, and lots of air? Something that pairs up pretty well with this system. I want the integrated amp with a streamer or external streamer (I was thinking about WiiM Ultra).

The budget 2-3 k EUR.

Thank you so much for your help and greetings from Sweden.

Thorgal

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Maybe I’m dense, but I’m not understanding your system. The internet shows the Rega ELEX pictured next to the turntable is an integrated amp. So you want to add a second integrated amp over at the TV?

Maybe you’re using the ELEX as a phono preamp only?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Thorgal]

Maybe I’m dense, but I’m not understanding your system. The internet shows the Rega ELEX pictured next to the turntable is an integrated amp. So you want to add a second integrated amp over at the TV?

Maybe you’re using the ELEX as a phono preamp only?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Correct, I wanted to strengthen the signal from the turntable due to the cable length, so I added the ELEX as a preamp. Maybe it's the wrong choice? I also considered using XLR cables instead of RCA, which may be more suitable for this distance. In that case, maybe the Shiit Skoll will be a better choice. But then I would need an Integrated amp (under TV) with the XLR input.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

The ELEX has record output jacks, so you have the needed signal boost. A 7-meter run shouldn’t be a problem – I’ve done further with no issues. Just make sure the cables have an excellent shield. I’d recommend some using either Mogami, Belden or Canare cable stock. Those probably won't be cheap, but worth it in your situation.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Multicore]

Why not try it with a long but good quality phono cable? If the SQ is acceptable then you're done.

With a phono preamp on one side if the room plugged in to a mains outlet over there and an integrated amp on the other side plugged into a different outlet, isn't there a good chance of a nasty ground loop? Balanced interconnect should fix that but limits your choices, e.g. WiiM doesn't have balanced input.

 

[Multicore]

Oh oh oh! How about this: Parks Audio Waxwing next to the TT, optical cable, WiiM Ultra next to the TV?

 

[Thorgal]

What do you recommend as the amplifier under the TV that connects everything (turntable, Wiim Ultra and the tv through HDMI Arc) to KEF r3 meta?

 

[AnalogSteph]

With a phono preamp on one side if the room plugged in to a mains outlet over there and an integrated amp on the other side plugged into a different outlet, isn't there a good chance of a nasty ground loop?

Nah. Phonopres generally have small IEC Class II wall wart power supplies (ideally the linear variety) with limited mains leakage. Use cables with low shield resistance (like some sort of RG-59) and you should be good.

In any case, placing a phonopre right next to the turntable is quite unavoidable. A 7 m cable run would add hundreds of pF of capacitive loading and upset just about any MM cartridge, not to mention the much lower signal levels involved. The odds are simply much better at line level.

 

[TimW]

What do you recommend as the amplifier under the TV that connects everything (turntable, Wiim Ultra and the tv through HDMI Arc) to KEF r3 meta?

I have a system with a Wiim Ultra connected via HDMI Arc to my TV and via Optical to my phono stage (Parks Audio Waxwing). I love the Waxwing and would recommend it, although there are other options with optical output. You can easily find an optical cable long enough for your situation and it will be a high quality noiseless connection.

I also use my Wiim Ultra to send the turntable sound to my other Wiim streamers wirelessly, so that is an option. You could get two Wiim Devices and have a wireless connection from turntable to amplifier. There are other options for wireless connection of a turntable but this is one of the easier, higher quality options.

As for an amplifier, you could use the Wiim Amp Pro instead of an ULtra Preamp if you wanted an all-in-one with HDMI input. I currently use my Ultra with a big vintage Yamaha power amp but if I were to do it all over again, I might get this visually matching Class D amp instead.

 

[harkpabst]

Correct, I wanted to strengthen the signal from the turntable due to the cable length, so I added the ELEX as a preamp. Maybe it's the wrong choice?

The Elex is a fully fledged integrated amplifier, but you're making use of its phono pre-amp only. You're paying for the integrated power amp (which you need to have close to the TV and speakers), volume control and input switching capabilities, a DAC, a big massive case and a remote when a Rega Fono MM Mk5 would have done the job (of course, there are other capable phono stages as well):

Rega | Fono MM MK5 Phono Stage

Rega Fono MM moving magnet phono stage made in England. Fono MM MK5, Fono MK5, preamp, pre-amplifier,

www.rega.co.uk

In any case, make sure to use high quality and low capacitance cables between whatever phono pre and the other amp/pre-amp.

I’d recommend some using either Mogami, Belden or Canare cable stock. Those probably won't be cheap, but worth it in your situation.

Good advice. I'd go one step further and recommend having them.made by a specialist company for you. Don't buy just anything off Amazon and don't attempt DIY unless you know what you're doing. Let them know what you need the cable for so they will know what to do to keep the capacitance low and make use of the shielding.

A phono stage with ADC and optical output is another idea but limits the choice between pre-amps.

WiiM Ultra and e.g. the 3e Audio A5 or A7 power amplifier is certainly a good choice for connecting the TV and driving the speakers. The WiiM Amp is another option. I tend to think the R3 deserves better than that, especially if you want to listen at higher levels occasionally.

 

[Rja4000]

Well, I thing it's better to take one problem at a time.

You need
1. A phono preamp, to sit next to your turntable.
Amir recently tested an excellent one. ($110)
This should be enough to drive your >5m line to the amp.

2. An integrated amp or a DAC with a HDMI Arc input, to sit below your TV.
I'd personally go for a DAC. One that could also allow Bluetooth LDAC and more.
Again, Amir measured  an Excellent one recently. ($400)

Then you may pick whatever (analog) amp you like, with the money you have left.
You just need a pair of stereo line level inputs.

There are other options, of course.
Like switching the DAC for a good streamer that may also act as a DAC, as an example.
The Bluesound Node Icon, or the cheaper Node N132, which also are both Dirac capable, look like good options, since they include HDMI eArc input.
Bluesound performance is not top notch, but those 2 recent ones should be OK (green category on Amir's DACs chart).

 

[Multicore]

Nah. Phonopres generally have small IEC Class II wall wart power supplies (ideally the linear variety) with limited mains leakage. Use cables with low shield resistance (like some sort of RG-59) and you should be good.

That Rega ELEX OP proposes to use as a phonopre has a mains power cord. The photos I could find show the connector on the amp having only two pins.

In any case, placing a phonopre right next to the turntable is quite unavoidable. A 7 m cable run would add hundreds of pF of capacitive loading and upset just about any MM cartridge, not to mention the much lower signal levels involved. The odds are simply much better at line level.

Of course, you're right.

I think my later idea of a Parks Audio Waxwing and an optical cable to a WiiM was much better.

 

[AnalogSteph]

The Elex is a fully fledged integrated amplifier, but you're making use of its phono pre-amp only. You're paying for the integrated power amp (which you need to have close to the TV and speakers), volume control and input switching capabilities, a DAC, a big massive case and a remote

Not to forget mains power, somewhere around 40 W at idle would be my guess vs. ~1 W or less for a basic phonopre.

Also, I just looked up what the thing costs, yikes. Bit of a waste indeed. I'd recruit it for main amplifier duties with an external phonopre on one of inputs 2-5, and add an external streamer using either another of the analog inputs or one of the digtal ones (it shouldn't really matter all that much).