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How to connect a DAC to an integrated amplifier

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I'm not surprised the Chord was better with those speakers than some other amps. You only have to look at impedance/phase in the bass to see why.

Although it's far from textbook in noise, it can keep doubling power into lower impedances.

The difference perceived in the DACs will almost certainly be down to a difference in their output voltages not being accounted for.
 
I had a pair of the Revival Audio Atalante 5 , probably one of the first in the US as they shipped direct from France and calculated the shipping wrong basically got them shipped for nothing about $100? I think they have a US distributor now, used a Nord One NC500 dual mono amplifier with them with a Benchmark DAC3. I don't listen at ear splitting levels so the amp was more than enough. I liked them though they needed some EQ pulled down some peaks and I think I used a HS. Didn't keep my measurements. I used them on the stands they didn't sound right to me with those bars under them on the floor. Had a wonderful midrange and more bass than you'd think. I've since moved on to active speakers.
 
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EQ will do more than chasing amplifiers and DACs for these speakers. Good luck and enjoy.

Edit: I did find an old screen shot of the EQ I did for my room. Wasn't as bad as I rmembered. I think I did add a shelf starting around 4K , -1dB.
Anyway , look into REW and doing some room measurments.

RMS Average 1.jpg
 
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The measurements above don't mean much to me. I've listened extensively to these speakers, and I think they're not well-made. In some ways, I consider them defective because their performance heavily depends on the amplifier. I've simply tried to compensate for their shortcomings.

When I first saw these speakers, I expected rich, deep bass, an easy resonance, and a warm texture akin to horn speakers. However, they turned out to be completely different—more like large monitor speakers in some ways. The bass from these 12-inch woofer box speakers is not what I associate with others in this category. I’ve listened to them in multiple audio shops with different setups, but the bass always sounded the same.

When paired with a few Class D Purifi amps offering around 300W of power, I discovered they could produce bass similar to that of typical box speakers. However, I felt the sound didn’t improve; instead, the overall sound became duller. It wasn't that the bass increased while mids and highs became relatively subdued—it was more that the entire sound lacked clarity. Simply put, the sound was worse than that of other speakers in a similar price range.

However, when I paired them with Chord amplifiers, the speakers’ true charm emerged: their density of sound. I usually avoid such expressions, but with other amplifiers, the space between the beginning and end of notes felt hollow, as if blowing into an empty bottle. With Chord, every nuance of the notes, from start to finish, was faithfully reproduced. The highs are unquestionably the speakers' strong suit, while the mids are very light, to the point where they feel about a half-step higher, but the soft bass counterbalances this. In summary, the sound is extremely bright.

I don’t know how Chord amplifiers sound with other speakers, but to me, this pairing is exceptional. Whether it's due to the speaker's responsiveness(?) or the amplifier's damping factor(?), I’m not sure, but it brought a new level of completeness I hadn’t experienced with other amplifier combinations. I strongly recommend giving them a listen.
It is fine not to know technical details or understand such testing as done by Erin or here by Amir. One of the benefits of learning it or listening to those who do is to avoid your situation. You have paid for speakers you almost consider defective, and aren't fully happy with. You say Chord amps made a big difference in how much you liked their sound. There isn't a good technical explanation for that. Something else is responsible. There is a very good chance you will get the Chord and find at your home it doesn't fix the problems like it did wherever your heard the Chord on those speakers. Most of us here know very well how simple the logic seems of go listen and find out for yourself. Along with how certain it feels once you've heard what you want. We also know how that can fool you leading to poor results.

Your description about revealing charm, exceptional pairing, the speaker's responsiveness, a new level of completeness, the Chord's damping factor (which isn't exceptionally good or poor) are descriptions of experiences that seem sensible. But there is no mystery or magic going on. There is nothing about the Chord vs another amp that will cause these experiences. So attributing this to the amp can end up leading to dissatisfaction.

If you've got your speakers and wish to persist anyway, I understand that. A speaker that probably does what you wish in a better way and will work with most amps with the kind of sound signature you describe is the Harbeth Monitor 30.2. Similarly priced.

 
It is fine not to know technical details or understand such testing as done by Erin or here by Amir. One of the benefits of learning it or listening to those who do is to avoid your situation. You have paid for speakers you almost consider defective, and aren't fully happy with. You say Chord amps made a big difference in how much you liked their sound. There isn't a good technical explanation for that. Something else is responsible. There is a very good chance you will get the Chord and find at your home it doesn't fix the problems like it did wherever your heard the Chord on those speakers. Most of us here know very well how simple the logic seems of go listen and find out for yourself. Along with how certain it feels once you've heard what you want. We also know how that can fool you leading to poor results.

Your description about revealing charm, exceptional pairing, the speaker's responsiveness, a new level of completeness, the Chord's damping factor (which isn't exceptionally good or poor) are descriptions of experiences that seem sensible. But there is no mystery or magic going on. There is nothing about the Chord vs another amp that will cause these experiences. So attributing this to the amp can end up leading to dissatisfaction.

If you've got your speakers and wish to persist anyway, I understand that. A speaker that probably does what you wish in a better way and will work with most amps with the kind of sound signature you describe is the Harbeth Monitor 30.2. Similarly priced.

There was a time when I was filled with despair over many amplifiers, but I had a sense of near-certainty when I saw the Electrocompaniet amplifier beautifully paired with a speaker on the official website of the speaker manufacturer. There was even the same photo on the amplifier manufacturer's official page, showing the speaker paired with it. However, when I actually connected the amplifier (ECI 6DX MKII) to the speakers, my expectations turned into the same kind of despair of the same magnitude. It felt like picking up a pen that was ideal for cursive while searching for a typewriter.

I understand the psychological bubble that brands can create. However, I didn’t even know about the existence of the Chord integrated amplifier until I saw it. The impact it had on me was never as significant as I expected from amplifiers like McIntosh, JBL, Marantz, NAD, or Naim. I only recognized Chord as a brand for IEMs and headphones. In fact, even now, that image hasn't changed much for me. I find their design rather unappealing, and I have little interest in the upsampling babel they’re building. No, in fact, after experiencing their integrated amplifier, I developed an interest I didn’t have before. I’ve started to take an interest in their DACs and am now looking forward to the potential of pairing them with the amplifier. This interest came solely after experiencing their amp.

I know that no matter how much I ramble on about this, it won’t be fully understood. Tests that aren't perfectly controlled might be misleading or meaningless. Everyone leaves about 25% (no measurement) of doubt in their mind. But still, I want to share the joy of finding a personally appealing combination, the experience, and perhaps, if you will allow me to use a word that you may despise, the ‘romance’ :cool: of it.

The speakers you kindly recommended look great, but I was looking for floor-standing speakers that can fill a room with sound, ideally capable of delivering audio across a 14ft-high ceiling from the floor at an angle. Unfortunately, it’s not quite what I needed, but I’ll definitely make sure to listen to them next time.
 
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EQ will do more than chasing amplifiers and DACs for these speakers. Good luck and enjoy.

Edit: I did find an old screen shot of the EQ I did for my room. Wasn't as bad as I rmembered. I think I did add a shelf starting around 4K , -1dB.
Anyway , look into REW and doing some room measurments.

View attachment 420559
Oh, I’ve actually been looking into Dirac Live, I’ll keep that in mind. Thank you!
 
I had a pair of the Revival Audio Atalante 5 , probably one of the first in the US as they shipped direct from France and calculated the shipping wrong basically got them shipped for nothing about $100? I think they have a US distributor now, used a Nord One NC500 dual mono amplifier with them with a Benchmark DAC3. I don't listen at ear splitting levels so the amp was more than enough. I liked them though they needed some EQ pulled down some peaks and I think I used a HS. Didn't keep my measurements. I used them on the stands they didn't sound right to me with those bars under them on the floor. Had a wonderful midrange and more bass than you'd think. I've since moved on to active speakers.
I’d love to experience such a happy mistake myself! I try to avoid those ugly stands as much as possible, but I’m seriously worried that, rather than improving the room setup, they might end up becoming a scratching post for my cats...
 
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I'm not surprised the Chord was better with those speakers than some other amps. You only have to look at impedance/phase in the bass to see why.

Although it's far from textbook in noise, it can keep doubling power into lower impedances.

The difference perceived in the DACs will almost certainly be down to a difference in their output voltages not being accounted for.
The difference I perceived in the DACs wasn’t a relative degradation in performance, but rather, for example, the newer ESS series offered excellent separation and transparency, while the AKM series had a slightly muddled texture, though it provided a more laid-back listening experience. However, whether it's due to my own lack of sensitivity or not, I didn’t notice these differences as clearly with other amplifiers. But as you mentioned, there must have been a difference in output voltage with the other amplifiers as well.
 
Sorry, that is complete rubbish... you're being had.


JSmith
Yes, it was surprising to me as well, as it felt like just another piece of rubbish with other amplifiers. This made me doubt myself, and as a result, here I am, rambling on this forum. This too feels new. :facepalm:
 
Yes, it was surprising to me as well, as it felt like just another piece of rubbish with other amplifiers. This made me doubt myself, and as a result, here I am, rambling on this forum. This too feels new. :facepalm:

Let's take a step back.

Understanding amp measurements:

Understanding speaker measurements:

Understanding DAC measurements:

Then look at Erin's Revival ATALANTE 5 review:

Next steps Julian Krause UMIK in-room measurements:
 
Then look at Erin's Revival ATALANTE 5 review:
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Explanations from cheerful and serious people are quite enjoyable. :cool:
I’ve come to understand several characteristics of the RA Atalante 5 from analyses, but I now find myself grappling with a new confusion. The faint reverb following a finger snap, and a distortion that sounds as though the speaker playback is being recorded and then replayed—these were extremely pronounced when paired with the Electrocompaniet ECI 6DX MKII. A similar resonance, albeit less pronounced, was also evident with Yamaha’s R-N2000A. I attributed these sounds not to the signature of the speakers but to the amplifier's inability to properly control the speakers, resulting in a loose and weak sound. To avoid this, my options for amplifiers have become increasingly limited.

According to an analysis of speakers, I suspect that I tested the Copland CSA150 without benefiting from its bass buff. While there was no distortion in this case, and the Naim Uniti Nova PE delivered a balanced and firm sound without distortion, the high-frequency clarity was relatively lacking.

I find myself reluctantly praising Chord amplifiers, and the Ultima Integrated has become the standout in bridging this gap. At the same time, I am troubled by the thought that the sound I’ve come to regard as “good” may have effectively stripped away the true signature of the speakers.

Why does the serif-like reverb distortion disappear with certain amplifiers, leaving only a clean, sans-serif sound? And is this distortion truly inherent to the speakers themselves?
 
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Explanations from cheerful and serious people are quite enjoyable. :cool:
I’ve come to understand several characteristics of the RA Atalante 5 from analyses, but I now find myself grappling with a new confusion. The faint reverb following a finger snap, and a distortion that sounds as though the speaker playback is being recorded and then replayed—these were extremely pronounced when paired with the Electrocompaniet ECI 6DX MKII. A similar resonance, albeit less pronounced, was also evident with Yamaha’s R-N2000A. I attributed these sounds not to the signature of the speakers but to the amplifier's inability to properly control the speakers, resulting in a loose and weak sound. To avoid this, my options for amplifiers have become increasingly limited.

According to an analysis of speakers, I suspect that I tested the Copland CSA150 without benefiting from its bass buff. While there was no distortion in this case, and the Naim Uniti Nova PE delivered a balanced and firm sound without distortion, the high-frequency clarity was relatively lacking.

I find myself reluctantly praising Chord amplifiers, and the Ultima Integrated has become the standout in bridging this gap. At the same time, I am troubled by the thought that the sound I’ve come to regard as “good” may have effectively stripped away the true signature of the speakers.

Why does the serif-like reverb distortion disappear with certain amplifiers, leaving only a clean, sans-serif sound? And is this distortion truly inherent to the speakers themselves?

OK, I see now I forgot this one:
 
OK, I see now I forgot this one:
The video is filled with sarcasm, urging viewers to read and listen with their eyes from beginning to end. This manner of response blurs the boundary between subjectivity and objectivity, much like a Klein bottle, and ultimately denies itself. To someone’s question, it essentially declares, “You cannot speak, so the strange sound coming from that hole is not a question.” As a result, no informational value could be obtained.
 
The video is filled with sarcasm, urging viewers to read and listen with their eyes from beginning to end. This manner of response blurs the boundary between subjectivity and objectivity, much like a Klein bottle, and ultimately denies itself. To someone’s question, it essentially declares, “You cannot speak, so the strange sound coming from that hole is not a question.” As a result, no informational value could be obtained.

No, this video shows the importance of:

- blind testing (so that your eyes and brain don't deceive you)
- volume matching (usually one amp/dac/whatever is louder we will perceive it as better)
- fast switching (short-term memory is awful)
- repeat it multiple times and then compare

You will see that all those differences you heard while doing sighted listening and comparing will disappear. We all fall into this trap, which is why this is very important.
 
It is fine not to know technical details or understand such testing as done by Erin or here by Amir. One of the benefits of learning it or listening to those who do is to avoid your situation. You have paid for speakers you almost consider defective, and aren't fully happy with. You say Chord amps made a big difference in how much you liked their sound. There isn't a good technical explanation for that. Something else is responsible. There is a very good chance you will get the Chord and find at your home it doesn't fix the problems like it did wherever your heard the Chord on those speakers.
For the price of that Chord amp alone there are solutions that include speakers, subs (if you want), amplification, active crossovers, driver and cabinet correction, time alignment, measurement mic, and room correction. These are highly capable (SPL, bass extension), full range systems with a neutral response that you can then season to taste with EQ. And brands like Neumann and Genelec have, unlike some high end audiophile gear, solid secondary markets in case you ever choose to sell them.

Trying to fix lumpy speakers with an expensive audiophile amp is, I would think, a recipe for disappointment.
 
The video is filled with sarcasm, urging viewers to read and listen with their eyes from beginning to end. This manner of response blurs the boundary between subjectivity and objectivity, much like a Klein bottle, and ultimately denies itself. To someone’s question, it essentially declares, “You cannot speak, so the strange sound coming from that hole is not a question.” As a result, no informational value could be obtained.

This video is NOT filled with sarcasm. This video instructs listeners how to control their biases and derive a reasonably logical result.

Reading through the 3 pages of this thread, you seem to discard any possibility that your opinions are not controlled by bias. The truth is that ALL you sensory input is controlled by your brain, and the brain uses bias to more efficiently process information.

This is a list of the biases that our brain uses, and which cannot be overridden.


This is a paper which shows the function of bias in, specifically, auditory mechanisms.


This tells you HOW the brain uses biases.


And this one shows WHY the brain uses biases.


It is normal for people to believe that they see what they think they see and hear what they think they hear. It is difficult for them to accept that they are being deceived by their own brain. That concept is counter-intuitive. However, people are victims of the brain's deceit in many ways, and this can be clearly shown.

Audio illusions ...


... and visual illusions.


The bottom line is that you cannot trust to subjective evaluations ... or more accurately, to uncontrolled evaluations. That was the subject of the video that you seem to have dismissed; control.
That is why science has developed tests and measurements that depend on instruments. Instruments are not deceived; they are not subject to biases. They are far more accurate than the human senses, and most importantly, their data is reproducible (or repeatable) and thus useful over time and distance for all interested parties.

I know that it's difficult to accept, but people here are trying desperately to help you. Please don't throw away the keys to a whole new world. ;)
 
No, this video shows the importance of:

- blind testing (so that your eyes and brain don't deceive you)
- volume matching (usually one amp/dac/whatever is louder we will perceive it as better)
- fast switching (short-term memory is awful)
- repeat it multiple times and then compare

You will see that all those differences you heard while doing sighted listening and comparing will disappear. We all fall into this trap, which is why this is very important.
I don't know much about sound analysis. It's like groping along a wall with my eyes closed, sensing only the relative differences—whether one wall feels rougher or cooler than another—without exaggeration, relying solely on my subjective perception. And yet, this video tells me not to trust my own hands. If a future audio device, for which no proper equipment or research yet exists to evaluate it, were placed before you, would you really just wait for someone else to listen to it and assess it on your behalf? That would be a sad thing.
 
I don't know much about sound analysis. It's like groping along a wall with my eyes closed, sensing only the relative differences—whether one wall feels rougher or cooler than another—without exaggeration, relying solely on my subjective perception. And yet, this video tells me not to trust my own hands. If a future audio device, for which no proper equipment or research yet exists to evaluate it, were placed before you, would you really just wait for someone else to listen to it and assess it on your behalf? That would be a sad thing.
I think it's the other way around it's saying to trust your ears without relying on your other senses, mainly eyes, to evaluate what you hear.
We can worry about future devices after they're invented with science and engineering and how could it be invented without equipment to evaluate it?
 
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