I quite like them - prefer their shaping to the completely flat Onkyo.... liked the old onkyo face of the SR876... but that is long gone!
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Pioneer releases new Elite flagship AVR VSX-LX805 with XLR inputs/outputs for front L/R channels
- Thread starter MarcT
- Start date
The two previously embedded Videos are making claims about Dirac Bass control is included. However the spec sheet directly from Pioneer’s website product link has the following information about what is and is not included as part of the built in Dirac package:
Link: https://www.pioneerhomeusa.com/product/vsx-lx805-av-receiver/
Learn more from Dirac”
If you follow the link it takes you directly to the Dirac Upgrade page for this model and you are given two options for upgrading. One Sub for $349.00/Dual Subs for $499.00.
Just to clarify the unit is $3k+ tax. Comes with Dirac but not the Sub part. If you have Subs (who doesn’t have at least one Sub for HT use) add another $500 for dual sub Dirac capabilities. Total cost will be more like $3600 out the door.
Link: https://www.pioneerhomeusa.com/product/vsx-lx805-av-receiver/
“Dirac Live® takes the room out of the equation
Odd room shape? No problem. An included Dirac Live premium license comes standard to help account for sound bouncing around any room, and an optional Bass Control upgrade is available for those who can’t get enough precision bass.Learn more from Dirac”
If you follow the link it takes you directly to the Dirac Upgrade page for this model and you are given two options for upgrading. One Sub for $349.00/Dual Subs for $499.00.
Just to clarify the unit is $3k+ tax. Comes with Dirac but not the Sub part. If you have Subs (who doesn’t have at least one Sub for HT use) add another $500 for dual sub Dirac capabilities. Total cost will be more like $3600 out the door.
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It looks like it adds a nice benefit of smoothing out crossover points and balancing bass across the listening area. The premium included license does say full bandwidth, so I'm guessing the included Dirac does calibrate the sub somewhat? Correct?
Well that’s my point. It does seem confusing and contradictory. I have learned over the years that anytime you have a spec misalignment like this. It normally means you get the lesser and not the better that they want us to conclude. If it includes full spectrum Dirac, then why the paywalled Subwoofer Calibration upgrade?
ArturoKiwi
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That because Dirac Live license, without DLBC, exist in two different format and different prices: limited bandwidth and full bandwidth
I realize that. Why I posted about it. The guys who did the videos didn’t understand that and misrepresented what you actually get. Not saying they did that on purpose. It’s unclear and murky. But thinking your getting the full bandwidth Dirac license and then realizing it’s going to cost you another $500 dollars is not going to be a pleasant experience. $500 for subs eq seems pretty steep a price. What you get is a neutered version of Dirac on a Elite Flagship AVR that can’t do Subwoofer integration unless you pay the upgrade fee.
Yes standard Dirac calibrates the sub (or even multiple subs)
I believe the confusion is that DL full bandwidth does attempt to calibrate sub(s) but not as effectively or completely as DLBC. @Flak could elaborate on what DLBC can do above what DL can achieve on its own. For my system w/ 2 subs DL full bandwidth does a good job. Doesn't mean DLBC wouldn't improve upon it though.
From the Dirac website - DLBC page:
"One of the keys to solving the bass optimization problem is introducing an all-pass filter that allows for precise control of a speaker’s phase response. Unlike high-pass and low-pass filters, an all-pass filter allows every signal through and adjusts the phase response (timing). With this type of filter, it’s possible to fine-tune the phase of each speaker so that the sound waves don’t cancel each other out and create dead zones in a room if you use multiple speakers.
Dirac Live Bass Control leverages all-pass filters, plus machine learning and artificial intelligence, to calculate gains, delays, and all-pass filters for each subwoofer. In this way, the Dirac solution ensures that low frequencies add up so that not only the average is controlled, but most importantly, seat-to-seat variation is minimized as we can now achieve a level of control in multiple locations at once."
So whereas DL will do basic sub calibration - including with as many subs as you have controllable channels (eg: with the Denon's with 4 channels, with the Flagship Pioneer/Onkyo/Integra - 2 Channels) - adjusting levels and basic phase individually
DLBC gets a lot more sophisticated in using AI/Machine Learning algorithms, to specify a range of filters to adjust the timing of not only the individual subs but also full range speakers, to minimise bass nodes/nulls in the room....
Dirac Live does a similar thing to Audyssey SubEQ (which comes with Audyssey XT32) - individual sub levels and basic phase adjustment - and YES if the device running Dirac can support multiple sub channels it will handle that too.
DLBC goes a substantial step further.... whether that in turn results in an improvement in YOUR room - is dependent on your setup!
But for most of us that have imperfect multy purpose living spaces, it may well be a partial panacea ... (and DL ART promises even more!)
"One of the keys to solving the bass optimization problem is introducing an all-pass filter that allows for precise control of a speaker’s phase response. Unlike high-pass and low-pass filters, an all-pass filter allows every signal through and adjusts the phase response (timing). With this type of filter, it’s possible to fine-tune the phase of each speaker so that the sound waves don’t cancel each other out and create dead zones in a room if you use multiple speakers.
Dirac Live Bass Control leverages all-pass filters, plus machine learning and artificial intelligence, to calculate gains, delays, and all-pass filters for each subwoofer. In this way, the Dirac solution ensures that low frequencies add up so that not only the average is controlled, but most importantly, seat-to-seat variation is minimized as we can now achieve a level of control in multiple locations at once."
So whereas DL will do basic sub calibration - including with as many subs as you have controllable channels (eg: with the Denon's with 4 channels, with the Flagship Pioneer/Onkyo/Integra - 2 Channels) - adjusting levels and basic phase individually
DLBC gets a lot more sophisticated in using AI/Machine Learning algorithms, to specify a range of filters to adjust the timing of not only the individual subs but also full range speakers, to minimise bass nodes/nulls in the room....
Dirac Live does a similar thing to Audyssey SubEQ (which comes with Audyssey XT32) - individual sub levels and basic phase adjustment - and YES if the device running Dirac can support multiple sub channels it will handle that too.
DLBC goes a substantial step further.... whether that in turn results in an improvement in YOUR room - is dependent on your setup!
But for most of us that have imperfect multy purpose living spaces, it may well be a partial panacea ... (and DL ART promises even more!)
This is a pretty good description of the difference. I do feel like DLBC would be useful for me, but I may wait on getting the upgrade. I also only have one sub, so the upgrade is cheaper and may eventually be more tempting for me. Regardless, I'll see what others say when they get it to see if it's worth it.
H2O Surfer
Member
Already a firmware update available:
www.soundandvision.com
Firmware Update Brings Advanced Features to Onkyo, Integra, and Pioneer AVRs
Premium Audio Company (PAC), the entity behind Onkyo, Pioneer, and Integra brand AV receivers, today announced a firmware update to improve functionality and connectivity for a number of Integra, Onkyo, and Pioneer AVRs. With the update, Onkyo, Integra, and Pioneer receivers gain additional...
www.soundandvision.com
ban25
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The sister product from Integra has been shipping as of last week.
tapornap113
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I just ordered my 805 and am expecting it Tuesday. It’s a bit of a gamble but I’ve been researching for a while and I can only hope it‘s as good as it sounds on paper. 
I doubt that, I suspect in direct/pure direct mode the analog input signal will bypass the ADC and DSP. Owners can try and confirm.
ban25
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I can confirm that Direct mode disables Dirac Live and an audible relay click is heard when switching into/out-of that mode.
Jukebox
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Did you received the product? Any thoughts?I just ordered my 805 and am expecting it Tuesday. It’s a bit of a gamble but I’ve been researching for a while and I can only hope it‘s as good as it sounds on paper.
tapornap113
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I did! So far, so good. I thought it sounded pretty good after calibrating with MCACC Pro. I then calibrated it with the Dirac Live mobile app version with three measurements and was a little disappointed as I felt the sound quality took a step backwards. Once I got my UMIK-1 in I did the full windows/UMIK-1 Dirac Live calibration and I was astounded at the difference it made! It's the best sound I've ever had in my room. I currently only have a stereo setup as I'm waiting for some more things to build an entertainment center for the center channel and have to buy speaker stands and wire to run for the surrounds. I can't wait to see what it sounds like after that. This will be my first full home theater.
