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Options for Preamplifier?
- Thread starter Kaiede
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- #22
Agree. There’s really good options if you have limited inputs and are digital only.
Yeah, those two are the least negotiable things.
Fair. I’d be trading lack of analog for lack of inputs in that case. CXN V2 is like all these desktop DACs: 1 USB, 1 Coax, 1 Optical. So I’d need a switcher like Willem commented.
- Thread Starter
- #23
Fair. I wasn’t exactly meaning to put them in the same bucket per se. The JC2 measurements had some issues, and the NewClassic 200 didn’t seem terribly impressive. So it’s more I’m apprehensive about trusting subjective reviews of the brand, and a couple of the reviews speak highly of PS Audio to compare the P6, which is a bit of a red flag on the review to me.
Well that does assume one needs only digital sources.
One may, of course, buy an ADC to feed the DAC. I bought a $30 ADC to connect my AM/FM tuner to my Topping DAC, but for the me the turner is an occasion and non-critical source.
Right now I have a Schiit Freya + on order. That is, if it ever gets here
-- it's been 17 days so far coming from So-Cal to SW Ontario with another 1.5 to 2.5 weeks likely.As for FM radio: I used to have an FM tuner but I have now moved over to internet radio (using a Chromecast Audio). Lossy streams are not perfect but neither is FM. On balance I prefer internet radio from the higher bitrate stations, with the added benefit that you can get the whole world in your living room.
My only remaining analogue source is my turntable. I had wanted to sell it but my family would not let me so I added the Project box (phono preamp+adc).
My only remaining analogue source is my turntable. I had wanted to sell it but my family would not let me so I added the Project box (phono preamp+adc).
Vasr
Major Contributor
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Not to point to you in particular and I have never bought Parasound equipment to have any vested interest but the above kind of analysis to choose is the most negative and harmful aspect of ASR (not to say this is intentional on part of the site or necessarily a failing of the reader).
One one hand, it discourages one to consider ANY review other than measurements. On the other hand, because of its limitations, it lets people to form opinions of a product or brand based on the single sample measurement of a discontinued product from 11 years ago with who knows what conditions it has been used under or what repairs it may have been subjected to while it shares nothing with another entirely different device. Absurd.
Moreover, it makes unclear distinction between equipment that meets its own lower design specs with good engineering and equipment with impeccable specs but fail its engineering to meet it (which indicates problem with QC or design/build attitude), especially when the lower design specs may have no audible effect. Ok to have a high target as highest engineering perfection but people have to choose equipment in the real world with the kind of compromises you have posed.
The measurements make no objective allowances for features/price/performance trade-offs. A DAC with no features is held as a standard for the evaluation of a full-featured AVR.
It is a good site for establishing standards to push manufacturers to meet but not great at making good purchase selections in the real world except perhaps in the simple and commoditized world of DACs and headphone amps.
Personally, I read a lot of sites before purchasing with a critical eye. This includes owner forums (sometimes a lack of complaints is a good sign and often they surface issues not caught in a quick set of measurements), established review sites, relative comparisons of similar equipment, etc. After a while you get the knack of how to calibrate between them and not use a binary of subjective bad, measurements good. I would never buy based on ASR measurements alone nor would I use its inherent poor and inconsistent sampling to form an opinion on a brand unless there was poor/broken engineering or QC issues surfaced on relatively new equipment.
ASR is like the girlie magazines one looks at for examples of perfect specs and then there is the one you marry.
There are a lot of user discussions on the P6 or the Parasound Hint 6 (which is Halo 6 pre-amp and A23+ amp in one chassis).
P6 (or the lower-end New Classic line) is not a supermodel but the kind of equipment that lasts for a long time with no bad bones in it to rub you the wrong way. The Outlaw 976 I suggested earlier at a lower price point is in the same category. If the feature set satisfies the requirements and price constraints, then it would be a better option than buying 30 year old equipment or putting together multiple boxes and dongles meant for desktop use or giving up on some sources altogether.
Otherwise, you would be encouraging the industry to diverge between all-in-one behemoths selling on features and desktop gizmos selling based on specs.
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AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
If the phono input is the main issue - the existing integrated should have a tape loop / recording output. Using one as a phonopre isn't exactly efficient in terms of power consumption, but if you only need it every once in a while anyway...
- Thread Starter
- #29
Hey, I’m not knocking the input. I think it’s fair to point out that maybe I should take a second look at a brand/model if I’ve mis-judged them. And honestly the only thing I had against the P6 was the iffy measurements on an older model’s DAC stage. It was a model that ticked all the boxes feature-wise for what I’m looking for, and would be less of a stretch of my budget to go after.
I have taken a look at the reviews of the P5/P6 again. The weak spot of the P5 still seems to be the DAC stage for very similar reasons as the JC2, but the P6 is running a newer DAC stage, so it’s possible that it’s improved. It doesn’t show in the spec sheet though, so who knows? But yeah, the analog stages seem absolutely fine for my needs. I guess more annoying that you get the DAC included, and pay for it to get the rest of the package. But it at least goes back on the list if I’m willing to go above 1000$.
I’ll consider the Outlaw as well. I was mostly hoping to avoid processors, but if it has good pre-outs, it could still be fine.
To be honest, it’s more that for me, I tend to bounce off audio reviews that live in the realm of the hobby’s jargon, and it’s hard to avoid that once you get out of the mass market realm of A/V equipment. That and any sort of comparisons tend to be with other equipment I’ve either never heard or don’t have the budget for. It makes it harder for me to grok what the reviewer is trying to say (or tell if they are saying anything useful at all). The measurements help ground more of the discussion for me.
Fair point. Sample sizes of one aren’t exactly a sample.
That is what I use in my home office, and it works fine there. But I have a collection of older music on vinyl, which not all of it got a digital re-release. I’d rather not permanently lose access to it, and digitizing it all would be a sizable project onto itself.
Mostly for me it is about being able to not rely solely on the internet for everything. I spend my time debugging network issues in software, so I don’t fully trust it.
Doesn‘t help that my local stations also insert intros onto their streams, and if you have even a minor hiccup, it makes you listen to it again, making the experience more annoying than just listening to the OTA digital FM signal. But it’s also why my tuner is the cheapest component in my stack. I’m not exactly expecting gold here.
And I’d have to feed that line out somewhere that attenuates the signal for the power amp. CXN can’t do it, it is digital only. The power amp has no volume control, so I can’t feed it directly in. If I just needed a phono pre, that wouldn’t be a big deal.
The phono input is the issue because it requires an analog input on whatever device I’m using to control volume for the power amp. And that is where choice is getting slim in the budget area. Integrated amps seem to favor line out vs pre outs until you spend enough money. Preamplifiers are thin on the ground in general these days, it feels like. AVRs aplenty though, of varying quality at their pre-outs.
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I just got mine. You could email and ask if they have any left in stock. if not they still might build you one, like they did me
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Many of your points are well taken, but that is not the fault of ASR as much as it is the person who judges based upon specs 'uber alles'. In any purchase one certainly ought to weigh other factors: build quality, warranty, company reputation, ease of obtaining service, features, cosmetics and so forth. From a purely electrical and/or audibility standpoint anything in the 'green' or 'blue' section should be OK.
However I take issue with your above statement. When ranking or otherwise measuring a product, there has to be a 'standard' one uses in order to make the comparison. If a stand-alone DAC sets the bar, it sets the bar not only for AVR gear, but for other stand alone DACs.
For example, while not ever likely, if a mid-range AVR DAC is discovered to be implemented better than, say a Benchmark DAC (or whoever is on first), then that lowly AVR becomes the new benchmark--the new standard for which to judge all DACs, even stand-alones.
D
Deleted member 19195
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the emotiva basX pt-100 is USD$300
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
This is true, but let's face it, most of the HiFi gear sold these days has short warranties, except a few notable mentions. Gone are the days where the big players offered full parts and labor 5 year warranties and three years was pretty much standard. Now you are lucky to get 12 months. And, let's face it, a failure within warranty generally means a replacement with an equivalent newer model which may or may not suit.
For me, it's always been about whole of life, the warranty period was just a bonus. At least I knew a long warranty would mean there was a greater likelihood of residual parts still being available down the track, often at the 10 year mark when you actually needed parts. I was able to get Yamaha parts for 30 year old gear in the early 2000s. Accuphase had every part (except metal cabinetry) back to their first product. Now, nobody except a few esoteric manufacturers keeps much in the way of parts. Ironically, it's the small esoteric manufacturers who are more likely to have parts for 10-30 year old gear (if they are still in business), than the huge manufacturers.
Preamplifiers have a nice easy life. They don't get too hot, don't get blown up easily and don't have too many moving parts. They are extremely reliable on the whole. Modern preamplifiers lack the basics, because they have looked at every option to save costs over the last 20 years or so. They have no tone controls, few if any quality filters, eschew a quality (and expensive) phono stage, have a dearth of inputs, few if any loops to insert devices really and ultimately, they end up a simple line stage buffer when it's all said and done. For people with simple needs and basic systems, that's fine.
That Parasound pictured above is a proper modern preamplifier, not a silly little toy like many we see on ASR. Over here, it costs AU$3300 which makes it into the esoteric price. It's about three times the figure the OP mentioned.
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May I suggest the Emotiva XSP-1 preamplifier.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
The Schiit Freya S is unobtanium - believe me I’ve searched. There are half a dozen wanted ads on USAudioMart. The Freya + is $899 and backordered until October 13. Sucks that Schiit figured out they had a good thing on their hands and decided to stick some tubes in it and charge an extra $300.
Martin
TimW
Major Contributor
If you like your Cambridge CXN, what about a Cambridge preamp like the Azur 851E?
I might have missed it, but did you state whether you are opposed to an ADC for the phono input?
I was just going to mention the BasX PT-100 but it looks like you're going in a more high end direction.
I might have missed it, but did you state whether you are opposed to an ADC for the phono input?
I was just going to mention the BasX PT-100 but it looks like you're going in a more high end direction.
countbasey
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I always thought before the Schiit came out that Wyred stp-se was the best used transparent preamp. around 1000$ lots of functions (no phono), xlr, balance, remote and transparent sound. Its not been measured here however. I have one which I am going to use for my tv system after upgrading to the benchmark pre. Never seemed like selling made sense for this one.
one for sale on us audio now. not mine (wish mine was black...)
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649598426-wyred4sound-stp-se/
one for sale on us audio now. not mine (wish mine was black...)
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649598426-wyred4sound-stp-se/
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