First measurements with HouseCurve app

[drmevo]

I hope this is OK to post and ask about here - I didn’t see another forum or thread for these types of questions.

I’ve just started playing around with the HouseCurve app (iOS audio system tuning app). I’ve done some reading here and elsewhere but it’s always nice to get feedback from people who are more knowledgeable if possible.

I don’t have a means of EQ or DSP in my system at this time, just treble and bass tone controls. Most of my listening is WiiM Mini or turntable>Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated>Kef LS50 Meta + Klipsch sub (planning to upgrade the sub to an SVS or two eventually). I also have an AVR connected via Home Theater Bypass, but that has its own room correction so I’m not too concerned with that. My understanding is that the sub itself should be set to LFE so each pre-amp can manage low pass independently. On my Parasound, I only have fixed 80Hz low pass and full outputs, currently using the 80Hz. There is also an adjustable high pass filter set around 50Hz.

With that out of the way, here is where I’m at after some fiddling with the filters, sub level and the like:

Room is mid-sized, oddly shaped but roughly 16x19ft and opens to two other levels of the house on the back wall. There’s no formal treatment. My feeling is there is a lot working against me. I can try to sketch it out if that would help.

Any pointers on what/how to tackle here? Is my biggest concern the peak around 17k, or in the lower region where there some peaks and dips? Or any further information needed to make any kind of suggestions? Thanks for any help!

 

[jhwalker]

First, ignore the peak at 17k - you won't hear it.

Second, focus on smoothing the response below 500 - THAT, you will hear.

Once that's straightened out, you can look at the heightened response between 500-2k and the lowered response from 2k-5k. I leave that area alone (to me, that's kind of the intrinsic "signature" of the speakers), but might be worth a little EQ to see if it makes a difference to you.

 

[drmevo]

First, ignore the peak at 17k - you won't hear it.

Second, focus on smoothing the response below 500 - THAT, you will hear.

Once that's straightened out, you can look at the heightened response between 500-2k and the lowered response from 2k-5k. I leave that area alone (to me, that's kind of the intrinsic "signature" of the speakers), but might be worth a little EQ to see if it makes a difference to you.

Thanks! I suppose I can try the EQ in the WiiM app, but then that wouldn't really help my vinyl setup. If trying to resolve manually, do you think speaker/sub placement changes would help? Or is it one of those things where there are too many variables, just keep trying things and see what works? This is my first shot at room correction.

 

[jhwalker]

Thanks! I suppose I can try the EQ in the WiiM app, but then that wouldn't really help my vinyl setup. If trying to resolve manually, do you think speaker/sub placement changes would help? Or is it one of those things where there are too many variables, just keep trying things and see what works? This is my first shot at room correction.

If you don't have access to a room correction system (e.g., REW measurements + convolution in Roon, Audyssey / Dirac, etc., in a processor and / or receiver, etc.), positioning your subs properly is probably your best bet (and your first step even IF using RC).

I'm no expert (my room really only has a couple good positions for speakers / subs, so I've had to compromise), but here's a primer on the subject: https://www.svsound.com/blogs/subwoofer-setup-and-tuning/75365187-the-art-of-subwoofer-placement

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

If you have a WiiM Mini you already have 4-band PEQ, soon to become 10.

 

[drmevo]

If you gave a WiiM Mini you already have 4-band PEQ, soon to become 10.

Well, all I know is that enabling EQ on the Mini actually caused audible distortion in some tracks. I think I made a thread about it here or on the WiiM forum. I had actually turned off EQ, and couldn’t find the source of the distortion, but after an update it showed it was still on. Turning it off solved the problem.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Well, all I know is that enabling EQ on the Mini actually caused audible distortion in some tracks. I think I made a thread about it here or on the WiiM forum. I had actually turned off EQ, and couldn’t find the source of the distortion, but after an update it showed it was still on. Turning it off solved the problem.

And yet Amir’s measurements here suggest WiiM’s EQ implementation is transparent.

 

[drmevo]

And yet Amir’s measurements here suggest WiiM’s EQ implementation is transparent.

Perhaps they do, but that was assuredly not the case for me. I experienced a faint but audible “fluttering” on some passages, until EQ was fully disabled.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Perhaps they do, but that was assuredly not the case for me. I experienced a faint but audible “fluttering” on some passages, until EQ was fully disabled.

I suppose forum members are subsequently forced to choose between your subjective opinion and Amir’s measurements.

Sorry, I should say between your subjective opinion and Amir’s measurements AND the subjective opinion of everyone else I’ve seen who’ve all failed to mention such a flutter.

But that choice is each individual’s to make.

 

[Sokel]

And yet Amir’s measurements here suggest WiiM’s EQ implementation is transparent.

Amir does not measure EQ normally and extensively,a device with EQ engaged and disengaged can measure very differently.
EQ can give a good hit in some cases,see D50 III thread for example,or this thread:

DSP Measurements and Rising Noise Floor

In several threads related to DSP platforms I've seen requests for measurements with filters engaged. I thought it unlikely that implementing filters in a DSP would have measurable effect on noise / distortion other than the obvious change in the fundamental, however @Sokel recently mentioned...

www.audiosciencereview.com

EQ can also mess with gain structure big time if not implement well and with a system that it's not taken care of it.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Amir does not measure EQ normally and extensively,a device with EQ engaged and disengaged can measure very differently.
EQ can give a good hit in some cases,see D50 III thread for example,or this thread:

DSP Measurements and Rising Noise Floor

In several threads related to DSP platforms I've seen requests for measurements with filters engaged. I thought it unlikely that implementing filters in a DSP would have measurable effect on noise / distortion other than the obvious change in the fundamental, however @Sokel recently mentioned...

www.audiosciencereview.com

EQ can also mess with gain structure big time if not implement well and with a system that it's not taken care of it.

The last part, for sure.

If drmevo hadn’t accounted and compensated for the possible issues, I can see that being an issue.

 

[drmevo]

I suppose forum members are subsequently forced to choose between your subjective opinion and Amir’s measurements.

Sorry, I should say between your subjective opinion and Amir’s measurements AND the subjective opinion of everyone else I’ve seen who’ve all failed to mention such a flutter.

But that choice is each individual’s to make.

First of all, it’s not a subjective opinion. There is a point at which we can trust that what we are hearing is real. This was one of those times - it was as clear as if one channel stopped working, or the sound was cutting out completely. Would you question those circumstances as well? I could record it and you could hear it for yourself.

Secondly, I don’t even believe Amir has measured EQ with the Mini. There are also many reports of distortion when using EQ with the Mini if you check around. I’m far from the only one mentioning it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BudgetAudiophile/comments/v9ev2c

WiiM Mini Streamer

g v I'm building a headphone "rig" and have so far got a Wiim mini and Hifiman Sundara phones. I need an amp for them - the aux out on the Wiim is not powerful enough. From tests using the headphone out on my itegrated amp, I also want to raise the bass on the headphones. Would I be best...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Holmz]

I hope this is OK to post and ask about here - I didn’t see another forum or thread for these types of questions.

I’ve just started playing around with the HouseCurve app (iOS audio system tuning app). I’ve done some reading here and elsewhere but it’s always nice to get feedback from people who are more knowledgeable if possible.

I don’t have a means of EQ or DSP in my system at this time, just treble and bass tone controls. Most of my listening is WiiM Mini or turntable>Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated>Kef LS50 Meta + Klipsch sub (planning to upgrade the sub to an SVS or two eventually). I also have an AVR connected via Home Theater Bypass, but that has its own room correction so I’m not too concerned with that. My understanding is that the sub itself should be set to LFE so each pre-amp can manage low pass independently. On my Parasound, I only have fixed 80Hz low pass and full outputs, currently using the 80Hz. There is also an adjustable high pass filter set around 50Hz.

With that out of the way, here is where I’m at after some fiddling with the filters, sub level and the like:
View attachment 351249

Room is mid-sized, oddly shaped but roughly 16x19ft and opens to two other levels of the house on the back wall. There’s no formal treatment. My feeling is there is a lot working against me. I can try to sketch it out if that would help.

Any pointers on what/how to tackle here? Is my biggest concern the peak around 17k, or in the lower region where there some peaks and dips? Or any further information needed to make any kind of suggestions? Thanks for any help!

Do the humps move at all when the speakers are shifted a bit to different spots on the floor?

 

[drmevo]

Do the humps move at all when the speakers are shifted a bit to different spots on the floor?

It’s been a bit since I played around with it, but they didn’t move much, at least from around 1k and below. I did try different toe in/out, different distance between L+R, a little further out from the wall, etc.

 

[Holmz]

It’s been a bit since I played around with it, but they didn’t move much, at least from around 1k and below. I did try different toe in/out, different distance between L+R, a little further out from the wall, etc.

Yeah I mean further out from the wall and closer… as well as microphone in a few different spots some inches away from each other.
And maybe further and closer to sidewall(s).

The 130 and 250Hz peaks could/should move some.
250Hz is about a 4’ wavelength, so something should happen within a foot or two from the center point.

 

[drmevo]

Yeah I mean further out from the wall and closer… as well as microphone in a few different spots some inches away from each other.
And maybe further and closer to sidewall(s).

The 130 and 250Hz peaks could/should move some.
250Hz is about a 4’ wavelength, so something should happen within a foot or two from the center point.

Thanks. I don’t have a ton of flexibility in this space, but when I moved the speakers things either didn’t change much or got worse. Moving the mic resulted in changes in the higher frequencies over 1-2Khz but not so much the ones you mentioned.

 

[Holmz]

Thanks. I don’t have a ton of flexibility in this space, but when I moved the speakers things either didn’t change much or got worse. Moving the mic resulted in changes in the higher frequencies over 1-2Khz but not so much the ones you mentioned.

Yep - still it is worthwhile to know what would happen, whether or not there is flexibility to make it happen.
I would have expected the lower humps to have moved, but if they didn’t then I suppose “just use a DSP”.