My experience of over 20 years is that Sony ES receiver amps are the best for music through the 2 channel analog inputs via 'pure direct' or 'analog direct' mode (though of course it is subjective). I've owned most of the major brands. If you're someone who has to have his/her receiver do double duty for music and movies, Sony ES is the way to go IME.
Forgive me but you wrote:
That was just a few of the quotes. If you now ordering another Sony is not a bipolar change of previous mindset then clearly I have some reading comprehension issues.
Sony has a ton of marketing speak around this. It’s really hard to tell what is going on. I strongly suspect that the room correction is nothing special and won’t be all that effective. There past efforts used the same stereo mic and didn’t work very well. I suspect this is a continuation of the same approach. Since I have a Trinnov in my system and completed a calibration, I can measure my system as it is. Then add the Sony instead and recalibrate to compare.
as for other people’s positive reviews, who knows their motivations for why. I have no skin in this game. I am paid the same for good or bad review. I’ll bench test it and try it out. So far I am finding it to be a mixed bag. I don’t think build quality is the equal of Denon or Marantz.
Early impressions from Matthew Poes at Audioholics:
Sony 2023 ES Receiver lineup
From Tony at Audioholics, "The big question is the new 360 Spatial room correction. Dirac has their spatial room correction solution, which abandons the old method of correcting one channel at a time, instead using every speaker in a system simultaneously to optimize the reproduction of each...forums.audioholics.com
Audio bliss is in the ear of the listener just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Anyone with a Trinnov for an absolute hit the law of diminished return well before the price paid for one of those - whether anyone wants to admit it or not.Early impressions from Matthew Poes at Audioholics:
Sony 2023 ES Receiver lineup
From Tony at Audioholics, "The big question is the new 360 Spatial room correction. Dirac has their spatial room correction solution, which abandons the old method of correcting one channel at a time, instead using every speaker in a system simultaneously to optimize the reproduction of each...forums.audioholics.com
This is turning out to be a mystery.
I understand the issues folks are facing here and I'm hoping it's just early production days for a new factory.
Shane's reviewed some very high-end gear lately and he owns a Trinnov so I'm not sure why he would profess that the 7000ES did well when he's heard a subwoofer that needs 10,000 watts.
Andrew Robinson has heard a lot of stuff too and his reviews of Marantz and Denon recently have been very positive. If the Sony sucked, I'm sure he would have figured it out.
Matthew's early impressions are pretty much the exact opposite of what the other reviewers have said and I'd surprised if his opinion changes.
I actually didn't find Shane's review to be especially glowing, more neutral to guarded than anything else. He remarked that the EQ controls were "very simple," and that he experienced a "more direct and distinct surround channel placement" with 360 spatial audio turned off (This is turning out to be a mystery.
I understand the issues folks are facing here and I'm hoping it's just early production days for a new factory.
Shane's reviewed some very high-end gear lately and he owns a Trinnov so I'm not sure why he would profess that the 7000ES did well when he's heard a subwoofer that needs 10,000 watts.
Andrew Robinson has heard a lot of stuff too and his reviews of Marantz and Denon recently have been very positive. If the Sony sucked, I'm sure he would have figured it out.
Matthew's early impressions are pretty much the exact opposite of what the other reviewers have said and I'd surprised if his opinion changes.
I actually didn't find Shane's review to be especially glowing, more neutral to guarded than anything else. He remarked that the EQ controls were "very simple," and that he experienced a "more direct and distinct surround channel placement" with 360 spatial audio turned off (). He also stated that the gimmicks, i.e. TV & wireless speakers. were not for people with decent speakers.
What is it to you? It's his money, it's his time. He can do whatever he wants without any criticism from you. Sorry, I'm going to use the bathroom now. Is that ok with you?
Lets dial down the oversensitivity guys, I was just very curious what made him change his mind as he was vehemently against the receiver when he got it. Maybe my ironic humour got lost in translation.Wait. First he gets grief for "giving up too early" and now he gets grief because he decided to give it another go? Both of those are simply rude.
I have great news guys!
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My cholesterol is down - let me run a test to see if my system sounds better now... Huge improvement - it's like Diana Krall is right there singing next to my ears - for a brief moment, I could almost feel her breath (although it's probably a draft from the AC unit).
Out of the 3 you mention, while I appreciate all three, I personally find Andrew Robinson's reviews more engaging. All reviewers to me are a bit compromised because they have to balance their relationship with the manufacturer (who's supplying them with demo gear) with being objective and polite. It's called PROFESSIONALISM. If anyone were to state that something "sucks" or "blows the doors off XXX", I'd personally be leery of them as just another fanboy, shock reviewer, or just plain amateurish. Reading some of the online takes on the new Sony ES offerings, I get the impression that there is a vocal minority who want to marginalize and quickly write off Sony as not up to snuff without any real reviews out there other than quick impressions here and there. Most only have Denon and Marantz on the brain; everything else to them is just "6 guys named Fred". My reason in trying out the new Sony offering is, in part, based on Andrew's review. I'm looking for something that takes the next step in processing evolution other than just another Dolby Atmos/DTSX/Audyssey/more speakers/independent subwoofer/ect.... Everybody's doing that! And they are beginning to charge insane prices without offering much innovation. From my own experience, there isn't a night and day difference in a $2500 receiver and a $25,000 processor in the same room with the same speakers fed by external amplification. And when there is a difference, it sure as hell isn't a $22,500 difference, and I would challenge anyone to prove me wrong. But if the Sony can deliver with the 360 Reality Audio and 360 Spatial Sound Mapping, both of which no one is doing in an affordable package AND be that evolutionary step forward with 360 SSM like Andrew describes it, I'm willing to give it a try. If it turns out to be underwhelming, oh well...NEXT!If I were to rank these 3 reviewers based on how much I trust/believe what they say, it would be Audioholics, Shane Lee, ... , ... , .... Andrew Robinson. I get more critical listening points from Audioholics combined with their measurements than the other folks (putting Amir aside in a different league). Andrew Robinson reviews have become too generic and IMO he's becoming nicer to whichever brand send him devices. In this case, Sony by sending him the first unit to review, gave him tons of more Youtube views than anyone else so I'd take what he said with a grain of salt.
Out of the 3 you mention, while I appreciate all three, I personally find Andrew Robinson's reviews more engaging. All reviewers to me are a bit compromised because they have to balance their relationship with the manufacturer (who's supplying them with demo gear) with being objective and polite. It's called PROFESSIONALISM. If anyone were to state that something "sucks" or "blows the doors off XXX", I'd personally be leery of them as just another fanboy, shock reviewer, or just plain amateurish. Reading some of the online takes on the new Sony ES offerings, I get the impression that there is a vocal minority who want to marginalize and quickly write off Sony as not up to snuff without any real reviews out there other than quick impressions here and there. Most only have Denon and Marantz on the brain; everything else to them is just "6 guys named Fred". My reason in trying out the new Sony offering is, in part, based on Andrew's review. I'm looking for something that takes the next step in processing evolution other than just another Dolby Atmos/DTSX/Audyssey/more speakers/independent subwoofer/ect.... Everybody's doing that! And they are beginning to charge insane prices without offering much innovation. From my own experience, there isn't a night and day difference in a $2500 receiver and a $25,000 processor in the same room with the same speakers fed by external amplification. And when there is a difference, it sure as hell isn't a $22,500 difference, and I would challenge anyone to prove me wrong. But if the Sony can deliver with the 360 Reality Audio and 360 Spatial Sound Mapping, both of which no one is doing in an affordable package AND be that evolutionary step forward with 360 SSM like Andrew describes it, I'm willing to give it a try. If it turns out to be underwhelming, oh well...NEXT!
If I were to rank these 3 reviewers based on how much I trust/believe what they say, it would be Audioholics
The one thing about Andrew, whether it is sighted bias or not, is that he definitely plays favorites and ranks products.Andrew Robinson reviews have become too generic and IMO he's becoming nicer to whichever brand send him devices.
This is turning out to be a mystery.
Matthew's early impressions are pretty much the exact opposite of what the other reviewers have said and I'd surprised if his opinion changes.
Trinnov is only for the Rich. Products like the Sony are more affordable.Audioholics has great measurements although Matt has a QuantAsylum setup not an APx585 like Gene, so the numbers aren’t as directly comparable. Hometheaterhifi used to be great when they did their measurements.
The one thing about Andrew, whether it is sighted bias or not, is that he definitely plays favorites and ranks products.
Shane recently reviewed the Marantz AMP10 and talked about the S- sound being off and he tried to record it.
I have had the Trinnov in the R972 which handily beats the SonyZA series.
What people don’t realize is that room node correction, frequency response EQ, and sound field processing are three different things. The Sony 360 audio is probably bad fr EQ, okay room correction and great sound field processing.
The only way to test sound field processing is to put your speakers in bad positions…
The better your speaker layout, the less good the Sony will be compared to a conventional setup.
Exactly. It wasn’t always like this. The original Trinnov home theater product was the Sherwood R972 which was quite a bargain. It decimated to 48 kHz but was as good as the 16000 one when it comes to algorithmsTrinnov is only for the Rich. Products like the Sony are more affordable.