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New Sony ES 8K AV Receiver Line STR-AZ7000ES STR-AZ5000ES STR-AZ3000ES STR-AZ1000ES

alkaizer

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Update

Connected my paradigm servo 15, and all the missing bass came back.

I'm now at 5.1 setup, will test the height speakers later, if they work well, I will be a happy consumer...hope I'm not overpaying for kef height speakers. Target setup 5.1.4, hope az3000es can drive them effortlessly

Also the sound distortion didn't come back. I'm not sure what solved the problem? It seems just powering on/off the receiver solve it [not putting it on standby]
 
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NoxPlague

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My local home AV installer is recommending a Sony STR AZ1000ES for a new in-wall install.

Speakers recommendation:
Front L/R: Monitor Audio CP-IW260X
Rear L/R: Monitor Audio W2M Tier 2

Anyone have experience with any of these speaker units?

Our room won’t accommodate side speakers or ceiling speakers (sloped going from 8‘ - 20’) so I believe this why they are not recommending a receiver with 9 or 11 channels since we’ll never use those additional channels.

Based on the discussion I’ve followed here:
  1. Does anyone have evidence for what the DAC chip used is?
  2. What class of amplification is used?
  3. “70 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.09% THD, with 2 channels driven” This seems like it rate poorly on Amirm‘s SINAD tables?
    • For reference I’m using dual Schiit Aegir for my stereo rated at THD <0.01%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 20W RMS into 8 ohms
    • Does this mean that with the Sony, I’d experience 10x more noise/distortion relative to my current amplifiers?
  4. Would the Sony 360 system be beneficial since we have a non-standard room with only a 4.1 or 5.1 speaker setup?
  5. Bass setup, I have an older REL sub I’d prefer to use, on this thread folks mention no bass management with the Sony AZ?

Thanks for any answers or insights to the above. I could invest in other receiver options, but would prefer the setup and support by our local AV installer.
 

Ncesar

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Will the rest of the range available in Europe? The only model available in Europe stores is the TA-AN1000, that seems to be the same as the US STR-AZ1000ES.
 
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lewdish

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Will the rest of the range available in Europe? The only model available in Europe stores is the TA-AN1000, that seems to be the same as the US STR-AZ1000ES.
Id love to see someone send the new line into ASR, but heard the 3000ES in a calibrated room recently and it was crazy immersive given the crappy speakers they were using. Sony is doing something right w/ DSP.
 

dlaloum

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Id love to see someone send the new line into ASR, but heard the 3000ES in a calibrated room recently and it was crazy immersive given the crappy speakers they were using. Sony is doing something right w/ DSP.
My impression of the tech that Sony is building in, is that it is focused on making the best of imperfect "lifestyle" setups - eg: it is good at adjusting for imperfect speaker positioning in the DSP domain, possibly also good at compensating for lower end mid market speakers...

Sounds to me like it would be relatively easy to make such a setup sound good/immersive, but potentially much harder to achieve truly top notch audiophile stereo performance... Which is where Dirac/Trinnov etc... will ultimately do a better job (albeit with more expense in the speakers, and more effort from the user in calibration)
 

Hattrick

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Other than a crossover, there is no bass management on the Sony receivers. If you want bass management, you'll also need to invest in a miniDSP.
Unless you have Subs like SVS which offer lots of internal bass management combined with using a MiniDSP mic and REW software you can fine tune as many subs as you like. I actually find this works better than my experience with Dirac Live on my old Arcam AVR850.
 

Magnus

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@Hattrick -

Reading Dr. Toole, I find myself questioning whether DIRAC does "anything useful" above Schroeder since it lacks the Spinorama information needed to differentiate the 1st arrival from the room response. The graphs might look better, but that includes the room reflections. If you have speakers like I do that are +/- 1.5dB the last thing you want to do is destroy the direct response in favor of a muddled room reflection. Some of these room correction companies seem to be claiming they have magic powers that somehow can fix something that Toole says cannot be fixed without the Spinorama response of the speakers you're using to differentiate the room from the speaker. I read an interview with Dr. Toole on newer correction and there's nothing he said that makes me think these room correction systems are exempt from the laws of physics.

While Trinnov uses more three dimensional microphones. It's possible they can glean direction better and give some added benefit, but I've never seen this actually proven. I remember the old Lexicon MC-12 had three microphones at once needed for its room correction system, but reading the reviews, it wasn't clear how great the benefit was above Schroeder either. I'm sure some people prefer the end results. There's no doubt some people prefer tone controls or a graphic equalizer to customize various bandwidth to taste, but that's not really correcting the speaker's actual response.

People make similar fantastic claims about Audyssey full range. My own experience has been that the variance introduced by moving the microphone across several different positions to get an average has a rather random effect at higher frequencies of whether it thinks it needs any correction or not in either direction as the wavelengths are so short that the microphone is just as likely to be sitting in a peak or a null at that frequency as the mid-point. That, at least, would explain why taking 7 different correction calibrations resulted in 7 different sounds in the mid-to-high range frequency range (and 7 different graphs from REW in that region that get more variance the higher up you go).

If I bandwidth limit the results to Schroeder only, the graphs match precisely and the bass correction is real. Audibly, at best, the full range results sound comparable to the Schroeder limited results. At worst, they sound dull or have too much high frequency energy. I concluded I'd be far better off following Dr. Toole's advice and limiting correction to Schroeder. While something like DBLC might make multi-sub integration simpler, it doesn't necessarily do a better job than a Mini-DSP and MSO/REW. In fact, if you have multiple rows, it won't help integrate multiple subs for them at all (MSO will).

I'm afraid full range room correction has become the new miracle oil of the 21st Century. Wild commercial flashy ad claims. Questionable results.

Frankly, if I had JBL speakers and a lot of money, I'd be going with their licensed version of the Trinnov Altitude32 as it does contain the Spinorama data needed to make the room question work for those speakers full range and that would be more valuable than the pyrite others are selling.
 
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GXAlan

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Reading Dr. Toole, I find myself questioning whether DIRAC does "anything useful" above Schroeder since it lacks the Spinorama information needed to differentiate the 1st arrival from the room response.


Frankly, if I had JBL speakers and a lot of money, I'd be going with their licensed version of the Trinnov Altitude32 as it does contain the Spinorama data needed to make the room question work for those speakers full range and that would be more valuable than the pyrite others are selling.

I think Dr. @Floyd Toole might say that correcting above the Schroeder is unpredictable.

In my mind, a really bad speaker (like an unequalized Bose 901) benefits from full range correction, since the baseline is so far from neutral. The 901 is obviously a unique case since it is designed with EQ required, but we definitely see budget speakers with smiley face EQ where a tilt adjustment is ideal but a full range correction may be better when no tilt is available. The Bose is also unique because you are predominantly listening to the off axis sound.

A somewhat bad speaker (Ok on axis, horrible off axis) would be worse with full range correction because any EQ you do won’t balance the on and off axis response. You need to correctly only to the Schroeder.

A good speaker (OK on axis, matching off axis) might do well with full range correction since any EQ will have balanced correction or the on and off axis. If you look at the latest SCL speakers, correction with the SDP-58 is possible to hit a target curve and can help if you have a more or less transparent acoustic screen.

A spectacular speaker (perfect on Axis, perfect off axis) would probably do great just correcting the room to the Schroeder frequency because above it, it’s the response of the speaker which is perfect.

You then have to consider microphone/measurement error which is a bigger issue as you go to higher frequencies.
 

Magnus

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I think Dr. @Floyd Toole might say that correcting above the Schroeder is unpredictable.
That's more or less the same as saying it's acting like a combined room response equalizer. You might prefer the results, but they're not really "room correction" in the sense these companies want you to believe, IMO.

In my mind, a really bad speaker (like an unequalized Bose 901) benefits from full range correction, since the baseline is so far from neutral.

You just made my case for me. You're using it as an equalizer. One can correct known room anomalies with manual graph correction if you understand what's going on (e.g. I'm forced to have my left rear surround in a corner due to a doorway. I correct the frequencies that get bloated by the corner reinforcement in the Audyssey graph and it sounds fine thereafter. Audyssey does NOT correct the problem automatically, that's for sure.

The 901 is obviously a unique case since it is designed with EQ required, but we definitely see budget speakers with smiley face EQ where a tilt adjustment is ideal but a full range correction may be better when no tilt is available. The Bose is also unique because you are predominantly listening to the off axis sound.

A somewhat bad speaker (Ok on axis, horrible off axis) would be worse with full range correction because any EQ you do won’t balance the on and off axis response. You need to correctly only to the Schroeder.

A good speaker (OK on axis, matching off axis) might do well with full range correction since any EQ will have balanced correction or the on and off axis. If you look at the latest SCL speakers, correction with the SDP-58 is possible to hit a target curve and can help if you have a more or less transparent acoustic screen.

A spectacular speaker (perfect on Axis, perfect off axis) would probably do great just correcting the room to the Schroeder frequency because above it, it’s the response of the speaker which is perfect.

You then have to consider microphone/measurement error which is a bigger issue as you go to higher frequencies.
I personally try not to use "bad" speakers, particularly when good ones are readily available at reasonable prices. I went with PSB. They're +/- 1.5dB over most of their range (ranged for both +/- 1.5dB range and +/- 3dB range). The founder Paul Barton tell you the really expensive ones are mostly just higher quality cabinets and veneer options and/or extended bass range. Most of their lineup, even the affordable ones (above Alpha) are ranged +/- 1.5dB.
 

dlaloum

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Ideally the Room/Speaker EQ software should identify the direct and reflected components seperately.... but they don't

As a result we are stuck with a rough approximation rather than a relevant measurement - and the target curve is a rough approximation targe.... sigh. (due to conflating direct and reflected in a single measurement)

Still the target curve does help to adjust for tonal variability due to non-identical speakers...

IMO, you need 3 matched front speakers - with adjustments limited to Schroeder frequency, and surround/height speakers (typically NOT identical) EQ'd full range, using the measured profile of the mains, as the target for the rest of the speakers
 

alkaizer

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Update!

The hiss and distortion sound is back. Tried to resolved it today, here are my observations:

First thing I noticed, if bluetooth is set to transmitter (and enter/exit setting menu to take effect), the hiss and distortion sound is reduced by 95%, but I lose my back heights.

Second, if I max all speakers bass in equalizer, the hiss and distortion sound is increased 50%

3, go to speaker setting, auto calibration setting, calibration type, set it to off, hiss and distortion sound will be reduced 85%. Then max all speakers bass in equalizer.

Subwoofer is now working when speakers are set to large.

Enjoy
 
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talktopwc

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Hi All,

I am a proud owner of a new 7000 ES that replaced my trusty and great sounding Denon 3805. In my old system I was running 5.1 with Klisph RF7 II powered by a MAC 275 and RF5s as surrounds. I was also running Rane THX equalizers for all seakers including subs and using test discs and radio Shack sound meter to flatten my curve. I was running a phantom Center and it sounded great.

I really enjoy some of the new surround mixes that include height channels so I decided to make a jump to the Sony so that I could enjoy Atmos as well as the 360 mixes released by Sony via something other than headphones.

With tube prices going through the roof and my hearing being less able to identify the sutleties that used to be more obvious in my youth I decided to power my setup with Solid state power via a Monolith 2x 200 that I purchased the last time I blew a tube.

I also picked up an RC7 to match so I am now running a solid state 5.1 setup with the goal to expand to a 7.1.4 system.

Before I expand to an Atmos setup I am doing what I can to get the sound of the current system back to what I enjoyed with the Denon. I am hoping to pull this off without using all the equalizers as I would love to sell all the higher end interconnects I purchased over the years and just lean on the HDMI connections from my Disc player and an Apple TV, and then just need the two interconnects for my turntable.

So now that you know my background I will follow-up with a couple questions under a different post.
 

talktopwc

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My first issue has to do with how the Small / Large and crossover frequency settings seem to be working in my setup.

Everything sounds pretty good when set all the speakers to Large, but I really don't want to have the ES-7000 powering frequencies under 60Khz.

From what I can tell the only way to redirect the low frequencies away from my speaker to my sub (which is a VPMS larger sub powered by a Crown comercial Amp) is to set the speakers to small and then set the crossovers to lowpass all the frequencies below the selected frequencies to the sub.

The problem I am having is that when I select small for my L/R it is cutting all of the low frequencies to my mains.

To test this I did the following.

1. Set mains to small.
2. Set xover to 50hz.
3. Turned my sub off completely.

Now one would think that all frequencies above say 60 hz would be channeling to the LR speakers, but that is not the case. My ears tell me that that it is actually crossed around 150hz.

Of note: When I set the speakers to Large, and reduce the db level to all speakers, I seem to get the same base signals going to the Sub output as I do when the speakers are set to large. But that is not really the issue I am trying to understand here. I am wondering why a crossover setting of 50Hz is killing all the base sent to my mains.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

Patrick
 
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talktopwc

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The second question I have has to do with my desire to Bi-amp the RC7 Center Channel using the 2nd Center option in the ES 7000. I read through the manual and learned that you could add a second center so I configured it as directed and connected the center channel speaker terminals to one set of binding posts and the second center speaker output (which according to the manual is output on the R side terminals of the Height 3 channel if configured in the speaker configuration page.

When I did this I did not get any output from the 2nd Center.

Would love to hear some feedback on this.

Also, wanted to thank you all for the 40 pages of learning I did over the past few weeks. You all have gone through alot of trial and error and I appreaciate that you took the time to share your findings with me and the other members of this group.

By the way I have some hiss here and there, seems to be tied to my Apple TV, but I have yet to take the time to track down the circumstances that generate it.

All the best!
 

alkaizer

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My first issue has to do with how the Small / Large and crossover frequency settings seem to be working in my setup.

Everything sounds pretty good when set all the speakers to Large, but I really don't want to have the ES-7000 powering frequencies under 60Khz.

From what I can tell the only way to redirect the low frequencies away from my speaker to my sub (which is a VPMS larger sub powered by a Crown comercial Amp) is to set the speakers to small and then set the crossovers to lowpass all the frequencies below the selected frequencies to the sub.

The problem I am having is that when I select small for my L/R it is cutting all of the low frequencies to my mains.

To test this I did the following.

1. Set mains to small.
2. Set xover to 50hz.
3. Turned my sub off completely.

Now one would think that all frequencies above say 60 hz would be channeling to the LR speakers, but that is not the case. My ears tell me that that it is actually crossed around 150hz.

Of note: When I set the speakers to Large, and reduce the db level to all speakers, I seem to get the same base signals going to the Sub output as I do when the speakers are set to large. But that is not really the issue I am trying to understand here. I am wondering why a crossover setting of 50Hz is killing all the base sent to my mains.

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

Patrick
As you can see sony AVR have a problem with bass. The best thing you can do is trial and error to find the best setting. Which mode you are using? SSM? try turning it on and off you will feel difference.
 

talktopwc

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As you can see sony AVR have a problem with bass. The best thing you can do is trial and error to find the best setting. Which mode you are using? SSM? try turning it on and off you will feel difference.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will try different modes tonight and report back.
 

Yviena

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I’m considering getting this AVR, but I see people say that this AV Receiver does not have bass management, does this mean that it has no EQ capability at all? I was thinking of only EQing to a max limit of either 500-750hz.

I could probably go the route of a SVS 1000 pro along with UMIK-1 for bass EQ but that would only cover at most up to 80-100hz depending on crossover set.
 

GXAlan

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I’m considering getting this AVR, but I see people say that this AV Receiver does not have bass management, does this mean that it has no EQ capability at all? I was thinking of only EQing to a max limit of either 500-750hz.

I could probably go the route of a SVS 1000 pro along with UMIK-1 for bass EQ but that would only cover at most up to 80-100hz depending on crossover set.

The EQ is hidden behind the interface so you have no control. You would need a MiniDSP for bass control or a sub with that built in.
 

Yviena

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Just wondering but has anyone tried connecting this AVR to a dac to the analog input for better Stereo music playback? Unsure if the pure direct etc modes disable Subwoofer LFE too tho.
 
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