New Philharmonic BMR HT Towers

[Beave]

well as having made an outboard crossover for my speakers I can say that I heard the differences between capacitors. of course they weren’t huge, but they were audible. I wish I didn’t. But they were there.

Did you measure the caps (capacitance and esr) to make sure you were comparing equivalent parts? Just differences in tolerance for the same capacitor (brand, value) can mean more than a 10% difference in capacitance, which could be audible in some circumstances. That doesn't mean there's anything magical about certain brands.

 

[Nkam]

Did you measure the caps (capacitance and esr) to make sure you were comparing equivalent parts? Just differences in tolerance for the same capacitor (brand, value) can mean more than a 10% difference in capacitance, which could be audible in some circumstances. That doesn't mean there's anything magical about certain brands.

I actually went all out and measured everything to the nth degree, taking into account ESR
the difference between electrolytic and poly was most notable.
from clarity caps which sounded smooth to me, Mundorf was more detailed and not as smooth. From Mundorf to Mundorf I couldn’t tell a damn difference.

I know that’s hearsay here. But it is what it is

 

[Beave]

How did you measure the caps? With what measuring gear?

 

[Nkam]

How did you measure the caps? With what measuring gear?

an LCR meter with the parts out of the circuit.

thanks for being civil with me on this.

 

[cavedriver]

Good point,Dennis's best work is often with lower budget stuff...the b1 mods worked out well too, and that was strictly a trap circuit upgrade iirc...i want to a/ b them with something like ls50s to see if the kef's are really 7 times better

I've lost the thread of this conversation - how are the LS50's supposed to be "7 times better"? Is that for one of the smaller monitors? I actually did bring a pair of the LS50 meta's over to Dennis' last year and fwiw, the BMR monitors won, but none of the smaller monitors were ready at the time.

 

[Beave]

He was saying that the LS50 metas cost about 7 times the Philharmonic true minis, but are they really 7 times better?

 

[Nkam]

I've lost the thread of this conversation - how are the LS50's supposed to be "7 times better"? Is that for one of the smaller monitors? I actually did bring a pair of the LS50 meta's over to Dennis' last year and fwiw, the BMR monitors won, but none of the smaller monitors were ready at the time.

I personally do not care for KEF speakers much.
they have a strange midrange to me.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

He was saying that the LS50 metas cost about 7 times the Philharmonic true minis, but are they really 7 times better?

The price ratio is actually 4:1. But I wouldn't expect the KEF's to be 4 times as good. Personally, I would settle for a 20% improvement (whatever that means in objective terms).

 

[tw 2022]

He was saying that the LS50 metas cost about 7 times the Philharmonic true minis, but are they really 7 times better?

Actually, i was referring to the emo b1 mods...$229 when i got them ( before the mod)....I'm guessing the ls 50s are *marginally* better....

 

[Beave]

Actually, i was referring to the emo b1 mods...$229 when i got them ( before the mod)....I'm guessing the ls 50s are *marginally* better....

ah, ok, that makes sense.

 

[Penelinfi]

Apparently, it seems like I could get a pair of BMR HT sent to Aus for a total of $8k AUD; seems tempting. Only thing is that they aren't quite as linear or evenly dispersed as some other options. Plus I generally don't need the power handling and prefer fidelity as a focus

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Apparently, it seems like I could get a pair of BMR HT sent to Aus for a total of $8k AUD; seems tempting. Only thing is that they aren't quite as linear or evenly dispersed as some other options. Plus I generally don't need the power handling and prefer fidelity as a focus

$7,462.69 if you like walnut. OK--I'll bite. Which speakers (other than the larger BMR Towers) are more linear and have wider dispersion?

 

[tw 2022]

$7,462.69 if you like walnut. OK--I'll bite. Which speakers (other than the larger BMR Towers) are more linear and have wider dispersion?

i'm guessing the list is short....

 

[Nkam]

i'm guessing the list is short....

look at these measurements.

it rarely gets better than the BMR HT tower.

https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/philharmonic-bmr-ht

i personally think the BMR HT tower measures better than the Perlisten S7t.
the latter of which does not have such an even dispersion pattern. And those speakers are WAY above price for the BMR HT towers.

https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/perlisten-s7t

 

[Penelinfi]

look at these measurements.

it rarely gets better than the BMR HT tower.

https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/philharmonic-bmr-ht

i personally think the BMR HT tower measures better than the Perlisten S7t.
the latter of which does not have such an even dispersion pattern. And those speakers are WAY above price for the BMR HT towers.

https://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/perlisten-s7t

I guess I would be referencing them against the March Audio speakers, which have a slightly smoother, but narrower overall dispersion. And the Beryllium tweeter if that's anything to go by.
The BMR HT hasn't been measured as completely; I like to compare specs.

There's also the question of BMR tower vs BMR HT

 

[Nkam]

I guess I would be referencing them against the March Audio speakers, which have a slightly smoother, but narrower overall dispersion. And the Beryllium tweeter if that's anything to go by.
The BMR HT hasn't been measured as completely; I like to compare specs.

There's also the question of BMR tower vs BMR HT

you mean the bookshelves?

those measure very well also, but are bookshelves.

and the directivity matching and dispersion of the BMR HT towers is just much more even Than the March bookshelves.
at around 5khz the March start beaming. Now whether that is to anyone’s liking is a different story. Maybe that would make the March sound a bit less ’ bright’ in room? Or duller in a very absorbent acoustically damped room? I don’t know

plus the March bookshelves have a wave guide. Which some as @Dennis Murphy say, squash the highs a bit and they don’t sound as airy and detailed.
its not only Dennis that thinks this of waveguides.

Dennis can correct me if I’m wrong. I’m no expert by a long shot

 

[Penelinfi]

you mean the bookshelves?

those measure very well also, but are bookshelves.

and the directivity matching and dispersion of the BMR HT towers is just much more even Than the March bookshelves.
at around 5khz the March start beaming. Now whether that is to anyone’s liking is a different story. Maybe that would make the March sound a bit less ’ bright’ in room? Or duller in a very absorbent acoustically damped room? I don’t know

plus the March bookshelves have a wave guide. Which some as @Dennis Murphy say, squash the highs a bit and they don’t sound as airy and detailed.
its not only Dennis that thinks this of waveguides.

Dennis can correct me if I’m wrong. I’m no expert by a long shot

I can hear the difference "highs" between a coaxial / waveguide and a regular small diameter tweeter. It's due to the dispersion. Though in a treated room it matters somewhat less, as it's mostly off axis. I think some of the "box speaker" sound comes from the blooming out of dispersion below 500Hz. Wide dispersion mid-treble helps with this, as does cardioid or open baffle. Narrow directivity may not be so bad if everything is narrow.

The BMR has wide even horizontal dispersion, but vertical is likely a different story, and the measurements listed above only went to ±10⁰.

I was referring to the Tower BMR vs BMR HT. The tower goes deeper with arguably more "hifi" mid-tweet, but is also bigger and I don't know whether it even ships here.

 

[Nkam]

I can hear the difference "highs" between a coaxial / waveguide and a regular small diameter tweeter. It's due to the dispersion. Though in a treated room it matters somewhat less, as it's mostly off axis. I think some of the "box speaker" sound comes from the blooming out of dispersion below 500Hz. Wide dispersion mid-treble helps with this, as does cardioid or open baffle. Narrow directivity may not be so bad if everything is narrow.

The BMR has wide even horizontal dispersion, but vertical is likely a different story, and the measurements listed above only went to ±10⁰.

I was referring to the Tower BMR vs BMR HT. The tower goes deeper with arguably more "hifi" mid-tweet, but is also bigger and I don't know whether it even ships here.

i personally don’t think one is more hifi than the other at all.
just that the HT goes louder and has more sensitivity.
the purifi woofers on it are amazing

 

[Penelinfi]

i personally don’t think one is more hifi than the other at all.
just that the HT goes louder and has more sensitivity.
the purifi woofers on it are amazing

Definitely don't think the Purifi isn't hifi enough, just wondering about the usage of higher power handling mids, and tweeter, and what would be the reason they are not used in the bigger tower?

 

[tw 2022]

Definitely don't think the Purifi isn't hifi enough, just wondering about the usage of higher power handling mids, and tweeter, and what would be the reason they are not used in the bigger tower?

The bigger tower was designed as a full range music first speaker, Iirc Dennis sacrificed some output for clarity....