New Philharmonic BMR HT Towers

[ryanosaur]

Yes, peaks but not sustained. I want to listen at realistic orchestral levels, especially because sometimes I will be accompanying it with a real grand piano in a large room 57x34x12. I understand some will say I must use pro speakers, but I am trying to see if something like the HT towers or Perlistens can provide enough spl where I can use them for everything instead of having two separate systems.

To me, orchestral classical music is all about dynamics, timbre and sense of space. It appears the HT towers excel in all of these; the only question is do they produce enough spl at 15-20ft away.

That is a very large room. I would say that considering the size, you can't rely much on any boundary support and you are probably closer to being something like -18dB at that distance from the Speakers.

While Dennis is a very good designer, I don't know that he had a use case like this in mind...

Do you use something now in this room that you play along with? How loud do you usually have it set?

 

[cavedriver]

Yes, peaks but not sustained. I want to listen at realistic orchestral levels, especially because sometimes I will be accompanying it with a real grand piano in a large room 57x34x12. I understand some will say I must use pro speakers, but I am trying to see if something like the HT towers or Perlistens can provide enough spl where I can use them for everything instead of having two separate systems.

To me, orchestral classical music is all about dynamics, timbre and sense of space. It appears the HT towers excel in all of these; the only question is do they produce enough spl at 15-20ft away.

in that big a room? Highly doubtful. I have the towers and yes, they can get loud, but not with the dynamics of a "big" speaker that could fill that kind of space. Consider that at the orchestra in real life the peaks are supposedly up to 110 dB or perhaps a bit more, and you want to project that level to people 20 feet from the speakers, you're looking at ~130 dB at 1 m, and I really don't think the HT's are designed for that.

 

[ryanosaur]

I'm not one to talk somebody out of a Speaker, but @cavedriver is pretty much on the same wavelength as I in this math...

I Don't even know that Perlisten would hang...

Frankly, I'd be looking at talking to Jeff at JTR about his Noesis 215 RM or RT. *shrugs Not as pretty, but still supposed to be good, and they are rated at usable output up to around 128dB iirc.

 

[paradoxical3]

This is kind of what I expected, but I am surprised how close I am getting from my current setup so figured it'd be worth asking. I repurposed my old HT speakers the Elemental Designs EDC6's with the DE250 compression driver. While I'm waiting on my Buckeye amp to arrive I am driving them with a cheap Fosi amp and without cranking the gains I am hitting low 90s at 15ft, after DIRAC calibration. But in fairness, the elemental designs are a 93db sensitivity compression driver design, so....extremely efficient. I can honestly probably be satisfied with the same volume level (low-mid 90s) at 15ft if it means getting a really nice dual use system.

Excuse the mess since I am still building the room (waiting on GIK Acoustics order to arrive plus a bunch of electronics), but hoping to make it a triple use room - recording, live parlor concerts, and 2 channel listening. I am excited to see what a ceiling cloud and diffusion on the brick/freestanding in front of the glass does to the sound of both the piano and the speakers. Even with the carpet the room is pretty reverberant.

 

[cavedriver]

This is kind of what I expected, but I am surprised how close I am getting from my current setup so figured it'd be worth asking. I repurposed my old HT speakers the Elemental Designs EDC6's with the DE250 compression driver. While I'm waiting on my Buckeye amp to arrive I am driving them with a cheap Fosi amp and without cranking the gains I am hitting low 90s at 15ft, after DIRAC calibration. But in fairness, the elemental designs are a 93db sensitivity compression driver design, so....extremely efficient. I can honestly probably be satisfied with the same volume level (low-mid 90s) at 15ft if it means getting a really nice dual use system.

Excuse the mess since I am still building the room (waiting on GIK Acoustics order to arrive plus a bunch of electronics), but hoping to make it a triple use room - recording, live parlor concerts, and 2 channel listening. I am excited to see what a ceiling cloud and diffusion on the brick/freestanding in front of the glass does to the sound of both the piano and the speakers. Even with the carpet the room is pretty reverberant.

nice space, lots of light, definitely need that cloud, hope it's big considering all those exposed floor joists. When you're done with all the treating perceived power demand will go up, maybe not a lot but some for sure. I'm still learning about them but Danley seems like a potential source of a system you could rent and then later buy. Certainly they are highly regarded and have rental providers across the country:

Home | Danley Sound Labs

Danley Sound Labs is a visionary in the audio industry providing loudspeakers, subwoofers and other innovations to venues around the world.

www.danleysoundlabs.com

 

[ryanosaur]

This is kind of what I expected, but I am surprised how close I am getting from my current setup so figured it'd be worth asking. I repurposed my old HT speakers the Elemental Designs EDC6's with the DE250 compression driver. While I'm waiting on my Buckeye amp to arrive I am driving them with a cheap Fosi amp and without cranking the gains I am hitting low 90s at 15ft, after DIRAC calibration. But in fairness, the elemental designs are a 93db sensitivity compression driver design, so....extremely efficient. I can honestly probably be satisfied with the same volume level (low-mid 90s) at 15ft if it means getting a really nice dual use system.

Excuse the mess since I am still building the room (waiting on GIK Acoustics order to arrive plus a bunch of electronics), but hoping to make it a triple use room - recording, live parlor concerts, and 2 channel listening. I am excited to see what a ceiling cloud and diffusion on the brick/freestanding in front of the glass does to the sound of both the piano and the speakers. Even with the carpet the room is pretty reverberant.

View attachment 358955

Wow... That room screams acoustic nightmare to me! Good luck getting that beast tamed.

I'm almost more confused now in how you will be using the room and your plans on setting up the audio system and how you will be using it.

Regardless, a 93db rated Speaker has a serious advantage over even just a true 90dB rated Speaker, requiring half the Power as the 90dB one to reach those peaks at full distance.

Admittedly, I don't know Perlisten first hand, but I still think you would want to be looking at a much more specific design goal from a Speaker Manufacturer than what Dennis at Philharmonic or the crew from Perlisten had in mind. That's just my 2¢.

I think you can indeed find a single use system that will do what you want, but you may just need to shift your focus. In that room, the Perlistens will likely be a better fit than something that is such a Wide Dispersion Speaker as Dennis' designs are. While the HT will fill the room with sound, you have so many hard and reflective surfaces that will be interacting with that widely dispersed energy.
That said, if you changed your layout some, you may be able to use the HTs to better advantage...
However, I don't know how well they would support the possibility that they would be used as live accompaniment to a Piano performance... even if it were only you in the room.
The same is often said about people that want to do karaoke with their AVR. *shrugs... Yes you can, but it's not really the right tool for the job.

 

[Nkam]

This is kind of what I expected, but I am surprised how close I am getting from my current setup so figured it'd be worth asking. I repurposed my old HT speakers the Elemental Designs EDC6's with the DE250 compression driver. While I'm waiting on my Buckeye amp to arrive I am driving them with a cheap Fosi amp and without cranking the gains I am hitting low 90s at 15ft, after DIRAC calibration. But in fairness, the elemental designs are a 93db sensitivity compression driver design, so....extremely efficient. I can honestly probably be satisfied with the same volume level (low-mid 90s) at 15ft if it means getting a really nice dual use system.

Excuse the mess since I am still building the room (waiting on GIK Acoustics order to arrive plus a bunch of electronics), but hoping to make it a triple use room - recording, live parlor concerts, and 2 channel listening. I am excited to see what a ceiling cloud and diffusion on the brick/freestanding in front of the glass does to the sound of both the piano and the speakers. Even with the carpet the room is pretty reverberant.

View attachment 358955

you don’t have to sit that far away do you?

yeah of course that room is gonna have a lot of reverb. It’s huge.

i would sit as close as I could in that room. You are gonna have a longer than usual RT60 decay.

 

[alexis]

Haven't updated this thread for a while, new HT Tower pictures are on the website: https://philharmonicaudio.com/products/ht-tower

 

[Mort]

I absolutely adore my HTs and center. I've paired with sealed subwoofers - a Rythmik F12 and an SVS sb-3000. Both sound great matched with the HTs. Cross them lower. The HTs are great to 40hz and can put out a lot of SPL.

 

[Luvchampagne]

Trying to decide between Bmr towers and HT Tower. 2 channel system. Replacing Aerial 8 while I'm saving up for Aerial 20t. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[chych7]

Trying to decide between Bmr towers and HT Tower. 2 channel system. Replacing Aerial 8 while I'm saving up for Aerial 20t. Any advice would be appreciated.

BMR towers, especially if you aren't running a sub. HT tower is engineered for higher sensitivity/volume and meant to be run with a sub, so doesn't have the bass extension the BMR towers have. RAAL tweeter is a true ribbon and may be better at lower volumes (i.e. <80 dB).

 

[Luvchampagne]

Thank you so much. I'm currently running a 2.2 system so I do have dual subs.
The thought of the HT Towers was I'm very curious about the Mundorf AMT and one very ancillary thought was to repurpose them in my HT setup once I upgraded to the 20t.
Also with the streamline option they are quite the lookers.

 

[alexis]

Thank you so much. I'm currently running a 2.2 system so I do have dual subs.
The thought of the HT Towers was I'm very curious about the Mundorf AMT and one very ancillary thought was to repurpose them in my HT setup once I upgraded to the 20t.
Also with the streamline option they are quite the lookers.

If you already have subwoofers, HT Towers would be a great option. It is slimmer and occupies less space. Some people choose BMR Towers or HT Towers purely on the look after auditioning both in our show. The Streamline cabinet is only available through custom orders. The next delivery would be June / July for custom orders.

 

[Mort]

I agree with @alexis. I have the HT with center in a small room 5.1 and a 2.1 with towers in a large room. I cross the towers lower.

Both are amazing. I prefer the towers for 2 channel (or 2.x) channel where there is ample space. For 5.1 with an amazing center and when constrained on space, the HT + center.

 

[Luvchampagne]

I agree with @alexis. I have the HT with center in a small room 5.1 and a 2.1 with towers in a large room. I cross the towers lower.

Both are amazing. I prefer the towers for 2 channel (or 2.x) channel where there is ample space. For 5.1 with an amazing center and when constrained on space, the HT + center.

Are the AMT still Mundorf in the HT Towers? Of not, which AMT is being used?

 

[alexis]

Are the AMT still Mundorf in the HT Towers? Of not, which AMT is being used?

We now use a custom made AMT for our HT Towers. HT Center always use our custom made AMT from the beginning. Our AMT measured smoother. In real life listening, one cannot really tell the difference.

 

[Mort]

Are the AMT still Mundorf in the HT Towers? Of not, which AMT is being used?

I have newer versions of both, whatever they are and I can't tell the difference.

Differences between the two with subwoofers will be subtle and in the lower ranges.

I would prefer the Towers slightly if I had to pick one, but I'm amazed at the HTs performance for their size. The slimline HTs are beautiful but I like the rear port on the rectangular.

It's hard to know until you've had both but the towers really are noticibly bigger and the front port is sizable.

 

[Luvchampagne]

My upgrade hopes are the Aerial 20t so size really isn't a concern. I'm viewing these as an intermediate step. I'm wondering for 2 channel whether I would prefer the BMR Towers or HT. I do have dual subs in my 2 channel.
The two things complicating my decision are the looks of the HT, especially the Streamline. Very nice looking. And the usefulness of the BMR Towers once I get the Aerial 20T. I could see moving the HT in to my home theater set up and I'd be super happy. How will I feel about the 2 channel performance of the HT? Currently have Aerial 8s which I like very much.

 

[Mort]

How will I feel about the 2 channel performance of the HT?

If it's an intermediate step, you will not be disappointed for the price of either. On the other hand, neither will be useful with the Aerial 20T but I don't know the Aerial line.
Note: HT streamlined are special order I think?

 

[ryanosaur]

My upgrade hopes are the Aerial 20t so size really isn't a concern. I'm viewing these as an intermediate step. I'm wondering for 2 channel whether I would prefer the BMR Towers or HT. I do have dual subs in my 2 channel.
The two things complicating my decision are the looks of the HT, especially the Streamline. Very nice looking. And the usefulness of the BMR Towers once I get the Aerial 20T. I could see moving the HT in to my home theater set up and I'd be super happy. How will I feel about the 2 channel performance of the HT? Currently have Aerial 8s which I like very much.

The HT isn't a compromise solution. You should stop thinking of it that way.

Dennis' predilection is not toward designing higher sensitivity Speakers largely because he honestly doesn't feel most people need that to enjoy good music reproduction. However, when met with increasing demand, fe found a solution to deliver on his trademark design philosophy without sacrificing quality. The new BMR Drivers and dual Purifi Woofers along with the new AMT Tweet deliver at higher SPL without the distortion one may experience pushing the Raal 64-10x. The only sacrifice here, is in Bass extension.

I think you will be hard pressed to find a better performing Speaker in this price range. Coupled with good Subs, The HT becomes an astounding proposition which can handle extreme dynamics without breaking a sweat and still deliver every single bit of the Sound Quality that helped build Denni's reputation as an expert in the field!