New Neumann MA 1 - Automatic Monitor Alignment

[DJBonoBobo]

Cool, thanks!. Another question, the sub and speakers should go directly into the AVR and MA 1 will still work properly? RIght now I have the speakers connected to the sub and the sub connected to a preamp. When calibration is done the speakers are connected the to the sub, and when using the AVR the speakers go into the AVR and the sub goes into the AVR (via the right input based on the manual). MA 1 would still work?

Not sure if i understand you question correctly.
Right now the MA1 supports only stereo setups with or without sub. You can calibrate 2 stereo systems and afterwards connect them like a 4-channel surround system (4.0 signal channels going into 2.1+2 speakers) The sub will play bass for front channels only.
Or do you want the AVR to distribute the bass of all 4 channels to the sub, so you have a 4.1 system?
I don't know if this works, depends on what the AVR does exactly.
You could calibrate Sub+fronts and sub+surrounds, so the 120II, 80, and 750 will be configured rolling of at 80Hz crossover frequency.
Or you could calibrate 120II plus sub, then disconnect the sub, calibrate 120II solo, then 80 solo. 120II and 80 will be linear down to their deepest frequency and the sub will be also calibrated, but still be rolling off at 80Hz. I don't know what happens if you calibrate the 4.1 system at last again with the AVR. Maybe it works, but i don't know.

 

[passballtotucker]

Not sure if i understand you question correctly.
Right now the MA1 supports only stereo setups with or without sub. You can calibrate 2 stereo systems and afterwards connect them like a 4-channel surround system (4.0 signal channels going into 2.1+2 speakers) The sub will play bass for front channels only.
Or do you want the AVR to distribute the bass of all 4 channels to the sub, so you have a 4.1 system?
I don't know if this works, depends on what the AVR does exactly.
You could calibrate Sub+fronts and sub+surrounds, so the 120II, 80, and 750 will be configured rolling of at 80Hz crossover frequency.
Or you could calibrate 120II plus sub, then disconnect the sub, calibrate 120II solo, then 80 solo. 120II and 80 will be linear down to their deepest frequency and the sub will be also calibrated, but still be rolling off at 80Hz. I don't know what happens if you calibrate the 4.1 system at last again with the AVR. Maybe it works, but i don't know.

Yeah that's what I'm confused about. It's a Denon x4000h receiver. So the easiest thing to do would be 2.1 in front and 2 for surrounds. Fronts would be set to full range and surrounds wouldn't? Then the surrounds wouldn't have bass but the surrounds are really only for video games so I'm not sure how important would be.

I guess I could try calibrating both with the sub and connecting the sub to the AVR to see what happens.

 

[Ren4issance]

Hi guys, I'm sorry to interrupt, I'm acquiring a complete set of second hand KH 150/KH 750 and MA 1 (bought new in June 23) at a very good price =).

I read the entire thread about the KH 150 on this forum and that's what motivated my decision to buy. I've done my due diligence on Neumann documentations and this thread, but I'm still left with a (stupid?) question. I'm still a newbie when it comes to acoustics.

It is indicated on the KH750 manual, that you need to calibrate the phase with Neumann test signals and KH750 back plate controls.

Do I still need to go through this step with the MA 1 alignement system ? Would calibrating manually unload some of the work done by the MA 1 system ? Is it worth doing ?

I hope my question is legitimate/make sens. Thanks for your time.

Antoine.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Hi guys, I'm sorry to interrupt, I'm acquiring a complete set of second hand KH 150/KH 750 and MA 1 (bought new in June 23) at a very good price =).

I read the entire thread about the KH 150 on this forum and that's what motivated my decision to buy. I've done my due diligence on Neumann documentations and this thread, but I'm still left with a (stupid?) question. I'm still a newbie when it comes to acoustics.

It is indicated on the KH750 manual, that you need to calibrate the phase with Neumann test signals and KH750 back plate controls.


View attachment 317067


Do I still need to go through this step with the MA 1 alignement system ? Would calibrating manually unload some of the work done by the MA 1 system ? Is it worth doing ?

I hope my question is legitimate/make sens. Thanks for your time.

Antoine.

No, you don't need to do this. Most backplate controls (everything marked with a *) are out of function if you activate network control. These are meant for situations where MA1 or other DSP software cannot be used.

 

[Ren4issance]

Hey thank you DJBonoBobo ! I guess I missed that information. Thank you for your time =)

 

[audafreak]

Yeah that's what I'm confused about. It's a Denon x4000h receiver. So the easiest thing to do would be 2.1 in front and 2 for surrounds. Fronts would be set to full range and surrounds wouldn't? Then the surrounds wouldn't have bass but the surrounds are really only for video games so I'm not sure how important would be.

I guess I could try calibrating both with the sub and connecting the sub to the AVR to see what happens.

I don't use receiver but use similar config as 2 stereo pairs 2.1 and 2.0 separately calibrated. As @DJBonoBobo said, there may be problem with pairing front and surround.
You have to calibrate with separate audio interface with ASIO driver and mic input with phantom power, no receiver for calibration. After calibrating everything and setting monitors to the same SPL level you can connect them to receiver.
If you would like to do multichannel calibration once it will be available - you will need audio interface with enough output channels.

For your receiver I would suggest only this combination, it is predictable, others are not much:
Front 2.1 as stereo (monitors connected to KH750) calibrated together and receiver set to 4.0 with all speakers set as full range. In surround channels usually there is not much bass and KH80 can handle to 50Hz so I thing it is better then cut it at 80Hz. KH80 are much better than usual home surrounds.
You will need probably set modified speaker distance in receiver for front and surround speakers because front speakers will be delayed about 3ms if connected to KH750. It means distance for fronts should be set 1m longer than real distance. This is workaround to delay also surrounds these 3ms.

No calibration on receiver side. But you can try it later, maybe it will somewhat join front and back correctly.

 

[passballtotucker]

I don't use receiver but use similar config as 2 stereo pairs 2.1 and 2.0 separately calibrated. As @DJBonoBobo said, there may be problem with pairing front and surround.
You have to calibrate with separate audio interface with ASIO driver and mic input with phantom power, no receiver for calibration. After calibrating everything and setting monitors to the same SPL level you can connect them to receiver.
If you would like to do multichannel calibration once it will be available - you will need audio interface with enough output channels.

For your receiver I would suggest only this combination, it is predictable, others are not much:
Front 2.1 as stereo (monitors connected to KH750) calibrated together and receiver set to 4.0 with all speakers set as full range. In surround channels usually there is not much bass and KH80 can handle to 50Hz so I thing it is better then cut it at 80Hz. KH80 are much better than usual home surrounds.
You will need probably set modified speaker distance in receiver for front and surround speakers because front speakers will be delayed about 3ms if connected to KH750. It means distance for fronts should be set 1m longer than real distance. This is workaround to delay also surrounds these 3ms.

No calibration on receiver side. But you can try it later, maybe it will somewhat join front and back correctly.

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually returned the Denon though, it was horribly noisy. I guess from the unbalanced preouts? I was about to give up on surround but I found a much cheaper solution that is probably better! The topping DM7. My current stereo setup is using the topping a90 so I like getting same brand. I wonder if I would be able to send stereo to the a90 for headphones and have the 5.1 at the same time with one dac.

Anyway about the audio delay. Is there software on the pc that can do than since the DM7 is just a dac?

 

[audafreak]

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually returned the Denon though, it was horribly noisy. I guess from the unbalanced preouts? I was about to give up on surround but I found a much cheaper solution that is probably better! The topping DM7. My current stereo setup is using the topping a90 so I like getting same brand. I wonder if I would be able to send stereo to the a90 for headphones and have the 5.1 at the same time with one dac.

Anyway about the audio delay. Is there software on the pc that can do than since the DM7 is just a dac?

You should know that with DM7 you will be able to play ONLY from PC both stereo and multichannel music and video with right player. No TV, no CD, no BD player and so on.
And depends on the sw player you may be limited by capability of the player to downmix to 4.0.
But you will still need another interface for using MA1. So better would be to buy some pro audio interface with all features like my RME UCX II. But you will loose remote control. And lot of learning about using this HW and SW, it is not plug and play.
It is not easy to mix HIFI and PRO worlds...

I use paid Jriver media player which allows stereo and multichannel downmixing, setting delays via speaker distance, ASIO playback for all audio/video files/rips including SACD and bluray and also transcoding and resampling if needed. I recommend this one. TV is connected to my UCX 2 via optical SPDIF and only stereo - I have optical in in my interface.

 

[passballtotucker]

You should know that with DM7 you will be able to play ONLY from PC both stereo and multichannel music and video with right player. No TV, no CD, no BD player and so on.
And depends on the sw player you may be limited by capability of the player to downmix to 4.0.
But you will still need another interface for using MA1. So better would be to buy some pro audio interface with all features like my RME UCX II. But you will loose remote control. And lot of learning about using this HW and SW, it is not plug and play.
It is not easy to mix HIFI and PRO worlds...

I use paid Jriver media player which allows stereo and multichannel downmixing, setting delays via speaker distance, ASIO playback for all audio/video files/rips including SACD and bluray and also transcoding and resampling if needed. I recommend this one. TV is connected to my UCX 2 via optical SPDIF and only stereo - I have optical in in my interface.

Yeah, I know it'll be PC only. The surrounds are mainly gonna be for video games so as long as that works I'll be good.
I have a Scarlett 2i2 that I use for the MA 1. Which is all that I would need since MA 1 doesn't support multichannel right now anyway. I also have a volt 476p with 6 lineouts so I could probably use that if MA 1 ever supports multichannel. I don't think there'd be much benefit for me spending a thousand more the the UCX II.

Reading the DM7 thread, a lot of people seem to have no idea what it’s use would be but in my case it seems perfect, or am I just crazy?

 

[passballtotucker]

I'm trying to calibrate the KH 80s but only one shows up at a time. I'll keep hitting refresh and randomly it will switch to the other, but never show both at once. And there's no option to continue with just one. If I plug in the Kh 20iis and 750 they'll all show up along with just one KH 80 at a time.

I'm wondering if it's because MA 1 only supports 2.2, it's only giving me the option to add one more monitor?

 

[passballtotucker]

Ok, so I tried MA 1 again today and at first no speakers showed up. Then I hit refresh and they both finally showed up. Not sure what the problem was.
So I found out if the 750 is in network mode, it will not work as a sub in a 5.1 setup. So to use MA 1 I will have to have as a 2.1 front and 2 rear like audafreak said.
I tried quadraphonic in windows configuration and I couldn't hear anything from the surrounds in a game I tested. So I set it to 5.1 and unchecked the center and sub and made the front and back full range speakers. It works in that configuration. So In order to have sub for the rears I'd have to buy another 750 so that's not happening. I don't think I'll need a sub for the rears anyway.
So a question for the MA 1 setup. Should I try for the equilateral triangle for the rears? That would make me have to put them about 2 feet farther behind than they currently are. They're currrently 32 inches away from me. For the triangle I would have to move them to around 58 inches away. Do you think that would be better?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Ok, so I tried MA 1 again today and at first no speakers showed up. Then I hit refresh and they both finally showed up. Not sure what the problem was.
So I found out if the 750 is in network mode, it will not work as a sub in a 5.1 setup. So to use MA 1 I will have to have as a 2.1 front and 2 rear like audafreak said.
I tried quadraphonic in windows configuration and I couldn't hear anything from the surrounds in a game I tested. So I set it to 5.1 and unchecked the center and sub and made the front and back full range speakers. It works in that configuration. So In order to have sub for the rears I'd have to buy another 750 so that's not happening. I don't think I'll need a sub for the rears anyway.
So a question for the MA 1 setup. Should I try for the equilateral triangle for the rears? That would make me have to put them about 2 feet farther behind than they currently are. They're currrently 32 inches away from me. For the triangle I would have to move them to around 58 inches away. Do you think that would be better?

Like this, just without a center:

Source: https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/5.1-virtual-speakers-setup-guide/

Edit: But ideally with the same distance, like this:

 

[snackiac]

Seems like multichannel MA1 might not be too far off?

Multichannel Extension for MA 1

Precision alignment for truly immersive sound that translates reliably to all playback systems

www.neumann.com

Page shows up on google, but I don't see it accessible through the regular site. Wonder how much the upgrade charge will be.

 

[passballtotucker]

Seems like multichannel MA1 might not be too far off?

Multichannel Extension for MA 1

Precision alignment for truly immersive sound that translates reliably to all playback systems

www.neumann.com

Page shows up on google, but I don't see it accessible through the regular site. Wonder how much the upgrade charge will be.

Awesome. Hopefully not too long of a wait. I also hope we can adjust how auto standby works. Out of my 4 monitors, only one goes into standby as expected. The KH 80s are particularly bad.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Version 2.0 has been released.

 

[passballtotucker]

Version 2.0 has been released.

View attachment 317812
View attachment 317813

WOW such perfect timing!

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Version 2.0 has been released.

View attachment 317812
View attachment 317813

Does not work for me yet, though. Crashes or hangs when i try to open an existing alignment... :-/

 

[passballtotucker]

Does not work for me yet, though. Crashes or hangs when i try to open an existing alignment... :-/

That's not good. Where do you even buy the license?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

That's not good. Where do you even buy the license?

It has often been the case that a new version runs bumpy at first, but it will work out eventually, hopefully.
The license does not seem to be available for purchase yet. Will certainly come soon.

 

[passballtotucker]

I wonder if my Volt 476p audio interface will work with this. It has 2 main outs and 4 line outs. I need 5 for my setup. Can main and line outs both be used or do I need one with more line outs?