• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

New KEF speaker?

VintageFlanker

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
4,990
Likes
20,066
Location
Paris
Just a new colour?
No new speaker then?

Well that’s underwhelming. :confused:
1000020155.gif


Certainly a welcome addition. But clearly did not need this level of teasing... :rolleyes:
 

dogmamann

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 16, 2022
Messages
816
Likes
513
Pre-meta, KEF marketing claimed that their damping material absorbed 100% of the back wave.

Now, with meta, it's improved to ... 99%!

IMO, meta, by itself, does not make an audible difference.

Great for marketing (and increasing prices) though.
Can you share a screenshot of the old marketing material? I don’t recall seeing anything about it on the first versions material.
 

MarkS

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
1,072
Likes
1,511
KEF R Series 2018 white paper: https://assets.kef.com/documents/rseries/rseries2018-white-paper.pdf

Page 15, text just above Fig.24:
the dome vents through the centre pole of the magnet system to a cavity filled with absorbent wadding. The cavity is tapered to that, when the wadding is inserted, it becomes more dense towards the rear of the cavity, gradually increasing absorption.
All the rearward energy is absorbed and cannot re-radiate through the dome after being reflected at the back of the cavity.
 
Last edited:

MarkS

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
1,072
Likes
1,511
Now we know Meta really makes a difference.
We do not know that. KEF changed several things on the R series, the backwave damping method on the tweeter was only one of them.

KEF"s metamaterial absorption technology is a pretty idea, it makes theoretical sense and it very likely works as claimed. But does it work better than plain old damping material? Does it make an audible difference? My guess is no, because (1) plain old damping material works really well, and (2) no other highly qualified speaker designers (Harman, Genelec, Andrew Jones, etc etc) ever seem to mention this as something to worry about.
 

Danaxus

Active Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2022
Messages
135
Likes
129
Location
Greece
Ultimately, what does it matter? If the speakers measure well, they're good speakers. They can say it's cause of meta materials, special wadding, or drivers suspended in pixie farts. I can look past bullshit marketing (if that's what it is), so long as they deliver the goods (and they've been nailing that on all their products lately).

It's the opposite I can't tolerate - bullshit marketing used to prop up a garbage product (*cough* GR Research, pixie fart cables, etc)
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,660
Likes
2,810
We do not know that. KEF changed several things on the R series, the backwave damping method on the tweeter was only one of them.

KEF"s metamaterial absorption technology is a pretty idea, it makes theoretical sense and it very likely works as claimed. But does it work better than plain old damping material? Does it make an audible difference? My guess is no, because (1) plain old damping material works really well, and (2) no other highly qualified speaker designers (Harman, Genelec, Andrew Jones, etc etc) ever seem to mention this as something to worry about.
Taken to the extreme, the metamaterial does what the rear cones opposing the drivers on the Nautilus, did.

Perhaps it is better suited for high frequencies, so damping can be tailored for lower frequencies, thus getting a better overall absorption.

LS60 wireless are a really nice pair speaker and they measure pretty well for their size.

But having no build in room correction or PEQ is a complete deal breaker to me.
You could of course connect a PC with Dirac or a Raspberry Pi with CamillaDSP but then the whole streaming section of the LS60 would be wasted and you'd probably be better off with a Dirac capable AVR and some R7 Metas.
The LS series has a DSP, so in theory, it could be compatible with Dirac or other room eq. It should be up to KEF to make it compatible and usable with said DSP, but not impossible on paper. There are some active speakers compatible with Dirac (Dynaudio), so a similar route could be feasible.

To me, the other limiting aspect is their limited usability in multichannel. Yeah, the LS60 can be plugged to RCA´s, but you´d still need an AV processor and the whole point of the LS´s is removing as many "boxes" as possible.
 
Last edited:

dogmamann

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 16, 2022
Messages
816
Likes
513
We do not know that. KEF changed several things on the R series, the backwave damping method on the tweeter was only one of them.

KEF"s metamaterial absorption technology is a pretty idea, it makes theoretical sense and it very likely works as claimed. But does it work better than plain old damping material? Does it make an audible difference? My guess is no, because (1) plain old damping material works really well, and (2) no other highly qualified speaker designers (Harman, Genelec, Andrew Jones, etc etc) ever seem to mention this as something to worry about.
Look at the post in this thread thewas posted. It clearly shows with the same crossover meta performs better.
 

MarkS

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
1,072
Likes
1,511
Here is the graph from that post:

1697716108931.png


I think the difference between 0.3% THD and 0.1% THD at 3kHz, or between 0.45% and 0.25% at 8kHz, is completely inaudible.

Note that anything above 10kHz is definitely inaudible, because the 2nd harmonic of 10kHz is 20kHz. This is dog territory.

So, I agree with what thewas said in that post: "How much each individual of these improvements contribute to what is something you can only ask the KEF engineers who participate here."
 

Daka

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Messages
319
Likes
212
Taken to the extreme, the metamaterial does what the rear cones opposing the drivers on the Nautilus, did.

Perhaps it is better suited for high frequencies, so damping can be tailored for lower frequencies, thus getting a better overall absorption.


The LS series has a DSP, so in theory, it could be compatible with Dirac or other room eq. It should be up to KEF to make it compatible and usable with said DSP, but not impossible on paper. There are some active speakers compatible with Dirac (Dynaudio), so a similar route could be feasible.

To me, the other limiting aspect is their limited usability in multichannel. Yeah, the LS60 can be plugged to RCA´s, but you´d still need an AV processor and the whole point of the LS´s is removing as many "boxes" as possible.
I think in multichannel only - considering cost yes it makes little sense - and a set of passives, even if that would cost similarily makes more sense.
But many, if not majority of people, have hybrid usage - when we take into account solid stereo amp, similarly performing passive speakers - then cost is similar if not more (r11 meta for instance + stereo amp is quite a bit more). So when listening to music you do turn on less boxes. But lack of room correction at that price hurts, with passives you can get an integrated amp with it.
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,660
Likes
2,810
I think in multichannel only - considering cost yes it makes little sense - and a set of passives, even if that would cost similarily makes more sense.
But many, if not majority of people, have hybrid usage - when we take into account solid stereo amp, similarly performing passive speakers - then cost is similar if not more (r11 meta for instance + stereo amp is quite a bit more). So when listening to music you do turn on less boxes. But lack of room correction at that price hurts, with passives you can get an integrated amp with it.
We use a set of LS50 WII exactly that way: music, radio and TV listening.

It would be ideal to apply Dirac as a option with a software update. Multichannel extensión would be the cherry on top.

However, does It sound fine as is? Yes, absolutely! However, I'd love to apply the extra above steps to make it even better.
 

Daka

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Messages
319
Likes
212
We use a set of LS50 WII exactly that way: music, radio and TV listening.

It would be ideal to apply Dirac as a option with a software update. Multichannel extensión would be the cherry on top.

However, does It sound fine as is? Yes, absolutely! However, I'd love to apply the extra above steps to make it even better.
With roon PEQ you can get flat response but personally I wasn’t fan of turning PC on every time I wanted to listen to music. Room uncorrected still usually will sound good maybe even very good, but typically only when corrected you can get this holographic sound, with speakers that can provide this of course.
I wonder how similar would be a kc62 put directly behind each ls50 II - in the sense of recreating single point of sound.
 

Kal Rubinson

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
5,298
Likes
9,855
Location
NYC
Yeah, the LS60 can be plugged to RCA´s, but you´d still need an AV processor and the whole point of the LS´s is removing as many "boxes" as possible.
I ran them from my PCserver (Jriver, Dirac) via S/PDIF.
 

Vacceo

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
2,660
Likes
2,810
With roon PEQ you can get flat response but personally I wasn’t fan of turning PC on every time I wanted to listen to music. Room uncorrected still usually will sound good maybe even very good, but typically only when corrected you can get this holographic sound, with speakers that can provide this of course.
I wonder how similar would be a kc62 put directly behind each ls50 II - in the sense of recreating single point of sound.
Mine is not behind the speakers, but it works quite well close to the listening spot.

I ran them from my PCserver (Jriver, Dirac) via S/PDIF.
I wish I could decode Atmos on the PC and do something like that.
 
Top Bottom