New Fosi Audio V3 Mono vs Topping PA5 II vs Topping PA7 (inc. 'Plus' versions)...and Aiyima A70

[magreen]

It sure would be helpful if anyone would compare these 3 options head to head -- Fosi monoblock, Topping PA5 II, and Aiyima A70. Especially using ABX listening tests.

 

[Guddu]

It sure would be helpful if anyone would compare these 3 options head to head -- Fosi monoblock, Topping PA5 II, and Aiyima A70. Especially using ABX listening tests.

I have had all of them, except PA5II which I game up. I would say I haven't heard anything different through any of those.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I have the PA5ii at the moment (nearfield, Warfedale Diamond 12.1s) and it’s superb.

I cannot imagine better.

 

[Ropeburn]

Kemmler3D, are these truly-hardcore just saying that, or do they critically listen to music at 115. Is that not masochism more than audiophile?

As a decades long electrotechno lover I can confidently say: it is pure and unadulterated masochism.

115dB is close to the average pain threshold, and exceeds it for anyone with relatively sensitive ears, such as mine.

For reference, the legal limit for nightclub sound levels in Germany is 90dB, which of course is exceeded in many cases.

We're talking about not abnormally large techno bunkers here, filled with a few dozens to maybe a few hundred dancers (whose bodies admittedly make for a significant squishy damping factor), filled with several thousands of watts mainly pumped into physically punishing bass between 40 and 100 Hz that can interrupt weak heartbeats.

The last time I went through such an ordeal in my mid 30s years ago, it took my ears a whole week to recover, with certain permanent hearing loss. Still had a great time, but at a cost.

Anyone who claims needing these levels at home, if only just for peaks, is ludicrous and needs not only his erars professionally examined, but his higher brain functions and general intelligence too.

 

[MitchH]

Hey there folks,
I'm a looking slightly lower on the foodchain:

Fosi v3 stereo vs Fosi ZA3 vs Aiyima A70 vs Fosi v3 Mono Blocks

Obviously the v3 mono & A70 are "better" than the v3 stereo or ZA3, but are they audibly better?

Price:
Fosi V3 Stereo (48v PSU) - $180ea
Fosi za3 - $228 ea
Aiyima a70 (48v PSU) - $275ea
Fosi v3 Mono - $341 stereo pair.

I've mostly removed the v3 stereo from my mind as the $40 extra to ZA3 seems worthwhile.
But should I step up to A70 or v3 mono?

I need enough for 4 channels, as I'm going active with a 2nd hand minidsp 4x10HD. I have balanced and unbalanced outputs to use.
My speakers generally average 88-93dB SPL (DIY), so I don't really need more than 5-10w of power in any normal listening conditions anyway, so big power numbers aren't really my concern. I can't hear above 15k Hz meaningfully so PFFB isn't a huge deal for me.

I think I'd win with any of the above, I think I've just got over analysis paralysis at this point. Any thoughts?

 

[mike70]

I don't think there's an audible difference between any of them if the amps are working in their operative limits... and it seems is your case.

In fact, we're talking about very cheap amplifiers ... you can buy all these amps at a minor fraction price tag compared to an "audiophile" amp. Then you can satisfy any curiosity / doubts and sell what you don't need.

 

[torgeirs]

Here's 85db (A) average to 112db (Z) peaks,which I have on hand example.

Actually it is not that difficult to find out what the max voltage that the amp need to support if you have a normal RMS multimeter and your REW setup.
Find a part of the music that has normal mids energy and around average loudness
Then connect the multimeter to one of the speaker terminals.
Find the approximate average voltage on the multimeter.
Find the average SPL with REW.

So lets say 85 dB(A) and 1 volt avarage
Then the amp need to support 112 - 85 = 27 dB increase of voltage. Thats about 20 times or 20 Volts.
If voltage is 0.5 you need 10 volts and if it is 2 volts you need 40 volts.

Then find out what the watt measurements means in Volts.
200 watts in 4 ohm is ~28 volts
100 watts in 4 ohms is 20 volts
50 watts in 4 ohms is ~14 volts
The ohms is just a way to extract the voltage from the amp measurements. You dont have to know in your speakers if they have normal values.

All are volts RMS

So an easy way of possibly saving some money on amp, if buying a new one

If one understand the volts/watts/dB thing, the max peak that is supported by the system can be calculated without actually measure it if one have that
RMS voltage on speaker terminal versus db(A) SPL measurement. And knowing how many watts the amp can generate at 4 and 8 ohms.

 

[Analogbox]

I'm auditioning both V3 Mono's and a pair of ZA3's and I think I prefer the ZA3's more at this moment. On my speakers, the mids on the V3 Mono's are too thin and forward. The mids are similar on the ZA3's, but they aren't as forward. The mono's do seem to have bigger soundstage with better resolution, so it's a toss up.

 

[burkm]

I'm auditioning both V3 Mono's and a pair of ZA3's and I think I prefer the ZA3's more at this moment. On my speakers, the mids on the V3 Mono's are too thin and forward. The mids are similar on the ZA3's, but they aren't as forward. The mono's do seem to have bigger soundstage with better resolution, so it's a toss up.

The "problem" could be the PFFB implementation, which should be much more lineast "linear", whilst the uncorrected ZA3 has a rising frequency output depending on the impedance of your speakers tweeters. The frequency response is much more depending on the impedance as the V3 mono

 

[iLoveCats]

I'm auditioning both V3 Mono's and a pair of ZA3's and I think I prefer the ZA3's more at this moment. On my speakers, the mids on the V3 Mono's are too thin and forward. The mids are similar on the ZA3's, but they aren't as forward. The mono's do seem to have bigger soundstage with better resolution, so it's a toss up.

Are you sure the polarity is correct on the monos? I have the ZA3 and V3 monos and PA5II. They all sound essentially the same except the ZA3 can have a hard edge on the higher frequencies. The PA5II and V3 mono sounds perfectly smooth all the time. I use the monos because they look cooler and have more power available. I really can't find any fault with how the V3 Mono of PA5II sounds. Perfect amps to me.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Someone in the new Fosi thread said a new thread would appear to compare models, so here it is.

Links to Amir's reviews of the three:

Fosi Audio V3 Mono
Topping PA5 II
Topping PA7
Aiyima A70

Prices are V3 Mono $260 (pair), PA5 II Plus $290, PA7 Plus $550, Aiyima A70 $220.

Does the V3 match or beat the PA5 II Plus? Can it even approach the PA7 Plus?

I'm going to go to each of those three review and check the specs, then edit this first post.

Meanwhile, chat away.

THD+N: Fosi 100dB, PA5 II 105dB, PA7 Plus 102.5dB. Not a lot in it, I think. ADDITION: A70 95dB.

Signal to Noise Ratio at 5W & full power: Fosi 103dB/120dB, PA5 II 107dB/120.5dB, PA7 Plus 105dB/122dB. Again, very close. ADDITION: A70 100db/116dB.

Frequency response and load dependency: All four marked as inaudible, except the Fosi ay 8ohm. However, it's still within 0.5dB right up to c.15kHz - I suspect most of us can't hear 15-20kHz, and for those who can its not dominant. YMMV, as they say.

Distortion: Fosi below between -130dB and -110dB up to 5kHz, then up to -90dB at 20kHz. PA5 II -130dB to -120dB up to 5kHz, then rising to -110dB at 20kHz. PA7 Plus around -120dB right up to 5kHz, then up to c.105dB at 20kHz. ADDITION: A70 -120dB to -105dB up to 5kHz, then up to -10dB at 20kHz.

Distortion-free range: Fosi 11 bits, PA5 II 15 bits, PA7 Plus ???. ADDITION: A70 13.3bits.

Maximum Power at 1% THD into 4 ohms/Peak Power: Fosi 244W/242W, PA5 II 120W/120W, PA7 Plus 236W235W. ADDITION: A70 178W/185W.

Other areas: I'm going to leave to others to decipher, as I feel others will do a better job of it than me. Just one more:

Bragging rights: If you own the Fosi you can say you own monoblocks. Seriously, when I was starting off in the wotld of hi-fi, only rich executives owned separate pre and power amps, as opposed to an integrated amp, let alone two monoblocks! Also, if one of your Fosis breaks down, it only costs $130 for a new one to replace that, with both Toppings you have to replace the whole thing.

But just initially, the Fosi does very well, considering it's the cheapest. PA5 vs PA7: The PA7 appears to be very similar to the PA5, except it has far more power. PA5 vs Fosi: The PA5 is a little better than the Fosi distortion-wise, but the Fosi has PA7 levels of power. PA7 vs Fosi: Similar power, the PA7 is cleaner, but costs more than twice as much.

Well, that's my initial reading, I may have made errors, for which I humbly apologise (that sounds a lot nicer than E&OE).

Over to you.

So in the end I bought the PA5ii, to go with my WiiM Ultra.

Looking back at the specs in my first post, I think the PA5ii comes top or equal top in every category except power. And I’m using a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 12.1s in a small 5m x 3m room at a seating distance of c.1.1m. More power simply isn’t necessary.

I didn’t expect this Fred to run to 5 pages when I started it. Thanks to everyone for contributing; I hope both the data in the first post, and the ensuing discussion, have been as useful to everyone else in helping you make purchasing decisions as it has been to me.

Thanks again.

 

[Bernard23]

Agh, I'm at the crossroads of V3 monos or a PA5ii.

Amazon UK showing a PA5ii and a PA5ii plus, what's the difference that's worth paying an extra £60?

 

[EddNog]

Agh, I'm at the crossroads of V3 monos or a PA5ii.

Amazon UK showing a PA5ii and a PA5ii plus, what's the difference that's worth paying an extra £60?

Or a pair of Topping B100s, which just got released today!

-Ed

 

[Bernard23]

Or a pair of Topping B100s, which just got released today!

-Ed

No, no, Noooooooo

 

[Analogbox]

Are you sure the polarity is correct on the monos? I have the ZA3 and V3 monos and PA5II. They all sound essentially the same except the ZA3 can have a hard edge on the higher frequencies. The PA5II and V3 mono sounds perfectly smooth all the time. I use the monos because they look cooler and have more power available. I really can't find any fault with how the V3 Mono of PA5II sounds. Perfect amps to me.

Yes. My polarity is correct on both of the monos. FWIW, I think I am keeping the V3 Monos over the ZA3's. They just sound more refined and open.

How would you describe the differences between the PA5II and the V3 Monos?

 

[iLoveCats]

Yes. My polarity is correct on both of the monos. FWIW, I think I am keeping the V3 Monos over the ZA3's. They just sound more refined and open.

How would you describe the differences between the PA5II and the V3 Monos?

There is no audible difference. I have a VU meter that can take 2 amps and 2 speakers and I have the amps level matched and can switch back and forth remotely and can't tell the difference. I just like the look and idea of separate amps.

 

[staticV3]

Agh, I'm at the crossroads of V3 monos or a PA5ii.

Amazon UK showing a PA5ii and a PA5ii plus, what's the difference that's worth paying an extra £60?

See here:

New Fosi Audio V3 Mono vs Topping PA5 II vs Topping PA7 (inc. 'Plus' versions)...and Aiyima A70

Someone in the new Fosi thread said a new thread would appear to compare models, so here it is. Links to Amir's reviews of the three: Fosi Audio V3 Mono Topping PA5 II Topping PA7 Aiyima A70 Prices are V3 Mono $260 (pair), PA5 II Plus $290, PA7 Plus $550, Aiyima A70 $220. Does the V3 match...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Rob_in]

No, no, Noooooooo

Yes, because Fosi have such great QA? (see the review thread). Personally I would let the numbers decide, would love to see measurements & review of the B100.

 

[burkm]

My Fosi V3 mono amps (I got several) were functioning direct out of the new box. They have that expected "inverted phase" problem, due to shipping from the German warehouse following August 8th, which I "cured" with a back plate sticker: All that was needed, I reversed the speaker connections. So everything is working fine. Any complaint with Yours due to QC ???

 

[Bernard23]

Yes, because Fosi have such great QA? (see the review thread). Personally I would let the numbers decide, would love to see measurements & review of the B100.

More that it's too much choice, nothing against the B100. Moot anyway, I bought 2 x V3