Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[Nektar]

Hello everyone

I just registered and I couldn't help answering in this thread because a few weeks ago I was able to compare these Neumann KH120 II with my beloved Genelec 8340 at home.
I finally returned the neumanns. They sounded pretty good, and amazing bass for their size, but I was missing the sparkle and texture of the sound of my genelecs.
Its features are impressive, especially considering its size, but I liked the way the 8340 sounded better and more powerful.

A few months ago I was also able to compare the 8340 with the Adam S2V and something similar happened to me, although the KH120 II sweeps the S2V in quality/price ratio.

Greetings

 

[Infinit0]

Hello everyone

I just registered and I couldn't help answering in this thread because a few weeks ago I was able to compare these Neumann KH120 II with my beloved Genelec 8340 at home.
I finally returned the neumanns. They sounded pretty good, and amazing bass for their size, but I was missing the sparkle and texture of the sound of my genelecs.
Its features are impressive, especially considering its size, but I liked the way the 8340 sounded better and more powerful.

A few months ago I was also able to compare the 8340 with the Adam S2V and something similar happened to me, although the KH120 II sweeps the S2V in quality/price ratio.

Greetings

8340 should be compared against KH150
KH120 to 8330

Also the comparison should be done using ma1 and glm

So not a good comparison tbh

 

[sprellemannen]

A great product by the pro and consumer market brand Neumann. In contrast to most consumer market only brands, I guess Neumann is a brand with no bullshit products and not supporting bullshit in their communication. Great audio equipment does not need to cost a lot. Thanks to @amirm for this great review and for all his work in making the hi-fi business much better: My guess is that he (by far) is the best and most influential hi-fi-gear reviewer ever.

 

[Spocko]

Bob Clearmountain is considered a great mixing engineer who's in the mixing world and is also famous for using Yamaha NS-10s, do you think his mixes would have been significantly better if he had used Genelec or Neumann monitors instead? The same goes for all other great mixing engineers out there who are used to completely different sounding monitors of all kinds, and of all types of brands which are all measuring differently from each other. Do you really think their mixes would have been significantly better if they had chosen other studio monitors with objectively better measurements than the ones they are used to and have already given great and proven results?

I hear this argument all the time (not about Bob specifically, but the Yamaha NS-10) and to me, this rings of authority bias and status quo bias rather than any data driven correlation that's tight enough to be useful. Hypothetically, if an amateur mixer was thrown into a studio equipped with NS-10s, and then unexpectedly ends up helping to produce a Billboard No.1 Single for a heretofore unknown pop star - this mixer will NOT want to change anything because of the status quo bias - they have no idea what they did right, but will not change a thing as a result. No differently, Bob Clearmountain is an authority figure and if he says "driving my beat up Jeep helps clear my ears before mixing", well guess what? Amateur mixers will be buying Jeeps.

I'm not saying that the NS-10 are good or bad for mixing, but rather the reasons for their popularity today have little to do with science and everything to do with authority bias and the colorfully romantic anecdotes from a successful career. I believe the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Michael Jackson would all have been pop stars regardless of the speakers being used for mixing.

 

[goat76]

I hear this argument all the time (not about Bob specifically, but the Yamaha NS-10) and to me, this rings of authority bias and status quo bias rather than any data driven correlation that's tight enough to be useful. Hypothetically, if an amateur mixer was thrown into a studio equipped with NS-10s, and then unexpectedly ends up helping to produce a Billboard No.1 Single for a heretofore unknown pop star - this mixer will NOT want to change anything because of the status quo bias - they have no idea what they did right, but will not change a thing as a result. No differently, Bob Clearmountain is an authority figure and if he says "driving my beat up Jeep helps clear my ears before mixing", well guess what? Amateur mixers will be buying Jeeps.

I'm not saying that the NS-10 are good or bad for mixing, but rather the reasons for their popularity today have little to do with science and everything to do with authority bias and the colorfully romantic anecdotes from a successful career. I believe the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Michael Jackson would all have been pop stars regardless of the speakers being used for mixing.

I don't know where you did get the idea that I was talking about the popularity of Bob Clearmountain and how his authority made the NS-10 popular, that got nothing to do with the discussion we have at the moment.

The things I said have very little to do vid Bob and his choice of studio monitors in particular, he was just an example of a guy who clearly can make good mixes on speakers that are less than stellar, and that goes for many other mixing engineers and their choice of studio monitors, that's why I directly after I mentioned Bob said the following:

"The same goes for all other great mixing engineers out there who are used to completely different sounding monitors of all kinds, and of all types of brands which are all measuring differently from each other. Do you really think their mixes would have been significantly better if they had chosen other studio monitors with objectively better measurements than the ones they are used to and have already given great and proven results?"

You see, Bob was just an example and the same goes for all other great mixing engineers out there who manage to make good mixes on their choice of studio monitors, even if many of those speakers are not considered to be among the best speakers measuring-wise. The thing that matters is that they are used to the sound of their speakers and are well aware of how reference tracks sound on those speakers.

 

[astcal]

Hello everyone

I just registered and I couldn't help answering in this thread because a few weeks ago I was able to compare these Neumann KH120 II with my beloved Genelec 8340 at home.
I finally returned the neumanns. They sounded pretty good, and amazing bass for their size, but I was missing the sparkle and texture of the sound of my genelecs.
Its features are impressive, especially considering its size, but I liked the way the 8340 sounded better and more powerful.

A few months ago I was also able to compare the 8340 with the Adam S2V and something similar happened to me, although the KH120 II sweeps the S2V in quality/price ratio.

Greetings

assume Genelec 8340 and 8330 have similar performance except the low frequency part, technical data indicate Neumann 120 II is superior:

Genelec 8330A Review (Studio Monitor)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Genelec 8330A studio monitor (powered speaker). It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me. The 8330A costs US $895 each. The 8330a naturally follows the current design style of Genelec 2-way non-coaxial speakers: This is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But you like 8330's sound better and I won't argue with you on subjective perception.

 

[DearSX]

Just got mine today, and I am very impressed with the bass these little guys put out, way more than the LS50 I had, feels at least as much as my Q Concept 50s. Lucklily the bass does not excite my room node like the R700, so these actually sound better than those in my space. Imaging is very good, sound quality is very good, great for gaming, very good for music. I can only imagine what the bigger ones can do. I want to keep these, but now I am more tempted to go with bigger ones.

 

[teashea]

Is the KH150 worth the extra $$$ over kh120 II?

I have KH 120 II's and two pair of KH 150's (in addition to KH 310's and two pair of KH 120A's/KH750's). I have already posted my comparison of the KH 120 II's and KH 150's here at ASR under another topic, before Amir did this review.

My conclusion, was and remains, that except for the deeper bass extension of the KH150's, I can detect no difference between my KH 150's and KH 120 II's.

Thus, I was expecting exactly the type of measurements and review that Amir made on the KH 120 II's. They are remarkable.

 

[teashea]

This site does not disappoint! New stuff every few days! Thank you Amirm

Would this speaker work well in the midfield? I usually site 5-6 feet from my speakers cause my system on the long wall side of the living room.

These are designed as nearfield monitors. While I find my KH120 II's adequate at 2 meters, that is not their true place. My KH 150's are better at 2 meters. However, even the KH 150's are really designed as nearfield - not midfield - monitors.

 

[teashea]

It seems that SP is even better than KH150, do they?

No. My KH 150's are capable of being louder than my KH 120 II's.

 

[teashea]

This or KH80 for recreational nearfield usage? (1 meter ish). I assume KH80 would be the wiser choice.

I use my KH 120 II's and KH 150's at one meter. This what they are designed for. Take at look at the Neumann recommendations for listening distance.

 

[teashea]

A great offer to all who tend to get 'anal' about precision in reproducing the sound engineers objectives. A KEF R3 may do the same to all who feel a bit more relaxed (considering the listening room's own signature). In both cases a subwoofer would close the case of speaker neutrality entirely. As awsome as the KEFs.

The Neumann KH 120 II's have a flatter frequency response.

 

[teashea]

This is really incredible stuff, except for one thing:


Ports shouldn't do this. If they have that much velocity... That's not great.

Actually that is fine as long as there is no sonic distortion - which there is not. The old rules do not apply. It is the results that count.

 

[teashea]

How does KH120II compare to KH150?
- So the bigger brother is still a hair better.

Virtually identical except for bass extension at listening levels.

 

[teashea]

I, for one, would like to see lower SPL distortion measurements because this better fits my use case. This is especially true for ‘studio monitors’ where the prevailing practice, afaik, is to mainly listen at a relatively low level; certainly under 86dB continuous.

I use KH 120 II's and KH 150's for the mixing/mastering station in my studio. I generally listen at 85 dB. As Amir has noted any distortion is far below the level of audibility.

 

[teashea]

This is probably the perfect Neumann setupView attachment 298780

Pretty darn nice - but 420's with their subs would be even better.

 

[teashea]

Do you recommend these KH120 II for listening at a distance of 2.5-3 metres (8-10 feet) ?

No. Look at Neumann's recommended distances. I confirm this with mine. These are designed as nearfield studio monitors. That is their purpose and design.

 

[Ellebob]

Do you recommend these KH120 II for listening at a distance of 2.5-3 metres (8-10 feet) ?

Yes, depending on volume desired. If you want loud you need bigger speakers. If your play at more moderate volume, then these will be fine. If you want deeper bass then add a sub.

 

[Robbo99999]

Do you recommend these KH120 II for listening at a distance of 2.5-3 metres (8-10 feet) ?

Yes, depending on volume desired. If you want loud you need bigger speakers. If your play at more moderate volume, then these will be fine. If you want deeper bass then add a sub.

Based on my experiences with my JBL 308p Mkii's which have higher distortion than the KH120, then I'd be quite certain a lot of people could use the KH120 in farfield - I use my JBL's at 3.8m most of the time and they're ok like that, although I don't listen that loud, the max volume I have them setup for at 3.8m is 85dB for a 1kHz 0dBFS sine tone (so my actual music listening volume is gonna be below that because music is not 0dBFS at 1kHz). They're not particularly pleasant if you turn them up much louder, so maybe that's some distortion creeping in. I'd think these KH120 could be used by most people in farfield.

 

[fineMen]

Do you recommend these KH120 II for listening at a distance of 2.5-3 metres (8-10 feet) ?

Depends on the objective. As far as I remember there were comments, not on this speaker in particular, who told that with higher volumes a lifted dose of reflections become increasingly bothersome. Like somebody shouting at you.

Naturally a more distant listening position would increase reflections, and the small size of the 120 likewise, but only in the mids for that matter. A bigger speaker would be more directive to a little bit lower frequency. No big deal, but it may influence the impression one gets.

Otherwise, 96dB seem to be achievable at 1m of a distance, but not more. It may be limited by the amp mostly. 96dB@1m => ~84..90dB@4m plus 3dB from having two in stereo. A little bit tight, me thinks. Don't use the 120 in bass. Bass is emergency mode for these. You would need for common home use two subwoofers in stereo that may be driven even up to 150..200Hz.