Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[goat76]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but the KH 120 are all pair matched to at least .5 dB. Impressive.

I’m not sure what level of tolerance is common with most speaker manufacturers, but ATC also claims they match their speaker pairs to ±0.5dB, and that is both for their active as well as for their passive speakers.

That’s maybe not that hard to do when they manufacture all their drivers in-house.

 

[IamJF]

Cabinet tolerances are minimal in such a design. As are crossover tolerances -> digital. But you always have sensitivity tolerances and frequency response tolerances with drivers. You can match sensitivity tolerances with *) measureing your drivers and mark them or *) simply set the gain of your active crossover/amp.
FR tolerances are mostly at the edges of the spectrum and at resonances where speakers are not in piston movement. When you avoid these areas (and you should) then there is probably no need for further adjustments to stay in tolerance.
But maybe they also just do an overall correction filter to also correct phase ... who knows. It seem to work pretty well ;-)

 

[boxerfan88]

KH120II + KH750

 

[CleanSound]

I’m not sure what level of tolerance is common with most speaker manufacturers, but ATC also claims they match their speaker pairs to ±0.5dB, and that is both for their active as well as for their passive speakers.

That’s maybe not that hard to do when they manufacture all their drivers in-house.

+/-.5 dB for passive speakers are much harder to do. To achieve +/-.5dB for passive speakers is quite a feat, especially for mass produce speakers, without driving up the cost significantly. I'm not trying to disrespect ATC, but I simply don't believe them.

Ascend Acoustics only matches up to +/-1dB and that in itself is a feat.

 

[goat76]

+/-.5 dB for passive speakers are much harder to do. To achieve +/-.5dB for passive speakers is quite a feat, especially for mass produce speakers, without driving up the cost significantly. I'm not trying to disrespect ATC, but I simply don't believe them.

Ascend Acoustics only matches up to +/-1dB and that in itself is a feat.

When Neumann or any other speaker manufacturer says they match their speakers to a tolerance of ±0.5dB or ±1dB, do you know if they specify that for the full range from 20Hz to 20kHz, or is it just for a certain part of the response?

 

[VintageFlanker]

@VintageFlanker Do you know whether the PO100 Pro allows volume vontrol via UAC2?

It absolutely does. I had to double check, but all my measurements so far (still use the PO100 PRO today as S/PDIF tone generator) have been done with UAC2 enabled...

 

[CleanSound]

When Neumann or any other speaker manufacturer says they match their speakers to a tolerance of ±0.5dB or ±1dB, do you know if they specify that for the full range from 20Hz to 20kHz, or is it just for a certain part of the response?

Good question and if I am honest, I don't know. It's one of those specs that's similar to WPC or THD+N. At what distortion level did you measure the power? Was it before the knee or did you go to 1% or 10%? When you say your THD+N is .005%, what was the bandwidth used, what was the impedance of the load, at what power?

Amir's measurements will tell you all the parameters, but there really isn't a standard.

But for pair matching, it is not unreasonable to assume 20Hz to 20kHz. There is one guy here who owns the Perlisten S7t Limited Edition, they are pair matched to .5dB and Perlisten included a Klippel NFS measurement of both speakers, he can tell you if it's 20Hz to 20kHz, I would have to think it must be, for Perlisten to include the NFS report.

 

[staticV3]

Hi,

I would like to use the digital input on my KH 120 IIs from my PC. What alternatives with USB in/SPDIF RCA out that allow digital volume control are there besides the RME UCX II?

As you can read on @VintageFlanker's post above, the SMSL PO100 Pro meets your requirements

 

[ernestcarl]

KH120II + KH750

He is quite sensibly measured here… I was expecting more “woo” in the talk.

 

[boxerfan88]

When Neumann or any other speaker manufacturer says they match their speakers to a tolerance of ±0.5dB or ±1dB, do you know if they specify that for the full range from 20Hz to 20kHz, or is it just for a certain part of the response?

100Hz-10kHz

It’s stated in their website “data & diagrams” section.

 

[boxerfan88]

He is quite sensibly measured here… I was expecting more “woo” in the talk.

Yup, very much so.

In part 1, he was smitten by the ATC, whereas in part 2, Neumann swept him off his feet

Nice outcome!

 

[Pearljam5000]

I wonder how the speaker that he makes compares to the Neumann

 

[dfuller]

+/-.5 dB for passive speakers are much harder to do. To achieve +/-.5dB for passive speakers is quite a feat, especially for mass produce speakers, without driving up the cost significantly. I'm not trying to disrespect ATC, but I simply don't believe them.

Ascend Acoustics only matches up to +/-1dB and that in itself is a feat.

Yes I doubt their passives are that close; their actives likely are. ATC themselves prefer actives for that reason.

It may be possible since we don't know how strict their quality control standards on their driver assembly are.

 

[Pearljam5000]

KH120II + KH750

Damn the calibration with MA1 is much more complicated than I thought

 

[IamJF]

Put every networkcable in a switch and start the program ... it's not THAT complicated but it needs a 2nd thought. And a network switch.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Put every networkcable in a switch and start the program ... it's not THAT complicated but it needs a 2nd thought. And a network switch.

And an audio interface ?

 

[goat76]

Yes I doubt their passives are that close; their actives likely are. ATC themselves prefer actives for that reason.

It may be possible since we don't know how strict their quality control standards on their driver assembly are.

I just took measurements of the ATC SCM40s and the ATC SCM11s to see how well the pair matched up. I marked up the spot on the floor to make sure I measured the left and the right pair of speakers from the same spot. According to my judgment, they match up pretty well for being passive loudspeakers, and not far off from the claimed tolerance of ±0.5dB.

The largest deviation is above 10kHz for the SCM11s, but I doubt that the part of the frequency range is that critical. I sure don't hear any problems while listening to music.


This is how my pair of ATC SCM40s match up.

And this is how my pair of ATC SCM11s matched up.

 

[IamJF]

And an audio interface ?

It's a pro monitor ... I always forget there are people without ANY audio interface out there ...

("Normal" studio people have at least a big and a small one. And the old one you are to lazy to sell. And sometimes a preamp with ADC who also can work as interface. Ah and the live mixer, you could connect this one but who would do that... I'm sure I forgott a few ...)

 

[MotuM4]

Curious if anyone has had their KH 120 II power supply fail? One of my speakers would not power on today. Have tried swopping IEC cables to no avail and am wondering if anyone might have a potential solution?

Really hope I don't have to send them back to Thomann for warranty purposes since I live in Asia.

 

[IamJF]

Contact Neumann ...
Mine are running daily, no problem.