Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[Deleted member 48726]

@amirm

Do you look at it on every speaker review but just decide to not include it? -And why not?

I don't normally comment on step response but I had to make an exception on how idealized it is here:

 

[Bmoze]

This has probably been asked before, but still not certain. Would these speakers, with a sub (RSL 10MkII) be suitable at 9ft MLP in a smallish room (12’x15’x8’)?

 

[HQY]

This has probably been asked before, but still not certain. Would these speakers, with a sub (RSL 10MkII) be suitable at 9ft MLP in a smallish room (12’x15’x8’)?

my space is slightly larger 13"x19"5' and 8"-13" high. my listening distance is around 6"-7". i have two kh750 subs using with 120iis and i'm happy with the performance.

 

[teashea]

This has probably been asked before, but still not certain. Would these speakers, with a sub (RSL 10MkII) be suitable at 9ft MLP in a smallish room (12’x15’x8’)?

Accoring to Neumann audio engineers, this is not preferred. Look at the specifications for the KH120 II's on Neumann's website.

I agree with this from my use of KH 120 II's in my recording studio. I would not use them in your application. While they would be ok, they would not be optimal.

These are designed and marketed as nearfield, not midfield. You would be better off with KH 150's's.

 

[dfuller]

This has probably been asked before, but still not certain. Would these speakers, with a sub (RSL 10MkII) be suitable at 9ft MLP in a smallish room (12’x15’x8’)?

With subs, depends on your desired listening volume. Probably fine.

 

[AudioJester]

In some ways I think it is a great disservice to Neumann to keep saying these speakers cant be used in midfield (2-3m), particularly with a sub.
I would go the other way and say with a sub they are hard to beat at usual househld levels. Obviously they will fail at very high spl.

 

[DearSX]

I use them about 6 feet away and they sound great. My room is 13' x 22' room on the 13' side about 2-3 feet from back wall

 

[unpluggged]

In some ways I think it is a great disservice to Neumann to keep saying these speakers cant be used in midfield (2-3m), particularly with a sub.

Agree. I have just set my pair of KH 120 A in the living room and have been listening to them for the last few hours from a distance of about 2.5 meters. I can say that I don't find them lacking in SPL. Besides, as a bonus, there is solid bass in my new LP, in contrast with the nearfield setup. So I can imagine how the new KH 120 II would sing in similar setting, especially with a sub.

 

[Ellebob]

It is a disservice to say these can't be used in the midfield as long as volumes are moderate. If these can't be used in the midfield than any other bookshelf speaker with a 5" woofer and tweeter shouldn't be used either. So you shouldn't use Kef, Polk, Revel or whatever brand in the midfield as well. Pro SPL recommendations for midfield don't apply for home use. I would bet these speakers will out perform many consumer brands of a similar size.

I have used studio monitors in my family room for many years for music and general TV viewing. They definitely out perform pretty much any sound bar. If you desire more bass I would recommend a sub with speakers this size.

 

[IamJF]

Accoring to Neumann audio engineers, this is not preferred. Look at the specifications for the KH120 II's on Neumann's website.

I agree with this from my use of KH 120 II's in my recording studio. I would not use them in your application. While they would be ok, they would not be optimal.

These are designed and marketed as nearfield, not midfield. You would be better off with KH 150's's.

You are still riding this horse even after clarifying that home use is not what Neumanns specification is based on? And so many people who actually tried it say it works perfectly and better as with other speakers this size?

 

[IamJF]

@amirm

Do you look at it on every speaker review but just decide to not include it? -And why not?

Speaker impulse response has way less information as many people belive ... you often see effects you don't hear. (e.g. a resonance way out of the used spectrum)

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Speaker impulse response has way less information as many people belive ... you often see effects you don't hear. (e.g. a resonance way out of the used spectrum)

Maybe. I'm not entirely convinced of neither this or that. But I'm more on the side of e.g. Dirac that claims it's of importance.
I just wonder why it's included here in this review and not in others. It's a great response but we don't know if other reviewed speakers inhibit the same characteristic or not so we have no reference points other than Amir that rightly says it's great.

"**The impulse response is the inverse Fourier transform of the frequency response. It shows how a system is able to reproduce transients such as drumbeats, claps, and strokes on the guitar, etc."

The 4 Types of Distortion a Good Digital Room Correction System Should Address - Dirac

The two weakest components of a HiFi system are typically the loudspeaker and the room the music is playing in— the second of which is most often overlooked. Even if you’ve invested in a best-in-class HiFi system, the listening room can still have a tremendous effect on the overall sound...

www.dirac.com

"Impulse response, which is the output produced by a brief input signal, such as a single note of music. Poor impulse response can result in a muddy sound, where notes linger too long and blend together."

Room correction improves on room EQ to deliver unrivaled audio optimization - Dirac

Recent advances pioneered by leading technology companies are changing how audiophiles and general home theater enthusiasts approach audio performance in their homes. While frequency equalization provides a degree of control over sound characteristics, and room EQ solves some issues with...

www.dirac.com

 

[IamJF]

Dirac writes in it's advertisment what HiFi people want to hear.
Do you think that speakers like KH420 can't reproduce drumbeats or claps and guitar strokes? Look at the impulse response ...

Had you ever measured a speaker in the room and had a look at the impusle response?

Impulse response is important in a technical view of measurement technique cause it has all of the information in it - but a frequency response tells us WAY more about a speaker.

 

[teashea]

You are still riding this horse even after clarifying that home use is not what Neumanns specification is based on? And so many people who actually tried it say it works perfectly and better as with other speakers this size?

While they may be usable to some people, they will not be at their optimum. If someone says it is "perfect" at these long distances, they are simply incorrect. The Neumann audio engineers know.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Dirac writes in it's advertisment what HiFi people want to hear.
Do you think that speakers like KH420 can't reproduce drumbeats or claps and guitar strokes? Look at the impulse response ...

Had you ever measured a speaker in the room and had a look at the impusle response?

Impulse response is important in a technical view of measurement technique cause it has all of the information in it - but a frequency response tells us WAY more about a speaker.

Huh? I haven't claimed it can't..

And yes, I've seen hundreds of measured impulse responses in room.

 

[IamJF]

While they may be usable to some people, they will not be at their optimum. If someone says it is "perfect" at these long distances, they are simply incorrect. The Neumann audio engineers know.

NO speaker will be at any optimum in a sh*tty living room. You are so far outside of any direct sound listening environment that no KH420 or whatever will be able to bring you direct sound.

It's as "perfect" as other speakers in these circumstances and better as most in that size.

 

[IamJF]

Huh? I haven't claimed it can't..

" It shows how a system is able to reproduce transients such as drumbeats, claps, and strokes on the guitar, etc."

Dynamic range, frequency response extension and resonance free behaviour. And THEN we can think about impulse response.

And yes, I've seen hundreds of measured impulse responses in room.

Then you know what's left from the initial impulse response of the speaker at the listening position.

Of course it's still nice to know that the ir looks good and there are no problems. But as I wrote - less important as the other measurements.

 

[Hexspa]

I use KH 120 II's and KH 150's for the mixing/mastering station in my studio. I generally listen at 85 dB. As Amir has noted any distortion is far below the level of audibility.

The point was that in a particular review, amir measured the speaker at 80dB and found a distortion peak. This can indicate that lower levels may produce distortion that higher levels don't; unexpected but possible. Distortion audibility varies from person-to-person so I've noted that you don't hear any distortion at your reference level when using these monitors. Thanks.

 

[IamJF]

As I couldn't confirm this peak with my measurements I would not lay to much into it. It's probably just a problem with THIS speaker or some rattling with the measurement setup or ...

It's VERY uncommon that distortion at lower levels is higher as at higher levels ... alsways be cautious with results like that.

(It can happen that distortion is not scaling properly at lower values - some PA drivers show that. Or you run into noise restrictions of your setup - but that's not THD, it's a measurement error)

 

[DearSX]

Im ok with the speakers not being at their implied best after 6ft or so,ñ. I know they still sound very good at the longer distance. When I move to a bigger room I will take the distance even further into account. Too bad the KH150 are so much more expensive than the KH120ii, but that extra spl and bass extension looks sweet. The narrower radiation not so much.