I'm starting to wonder if this has happened to one of mine... I'm getting a very odd vocal distortion on certain content from the right speaker. Can't hear it with music material but spoken word from a certain voice type will make a strange sound even at fairly low levels. Looks like you measured at main listening position?
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Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)
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In my mind all comments that the treble is harsh is either that the tweeters are damaged or that they're playing them too loud and should have bought something more powerful...they sound best when not driven too hard.
Follow my advice and start with the switches in the 94dB position and maybe dial the trims back a bit and you'll be fine re tweeters. If you're using an interface for example calibrate it so 23bit (-6dBFS) is about as loud as you'll ever need them...maybe -12dBFS...but no more. If these were stolen, I would probably buy them again...
I don't think ATCs are worth it...if you're thinking of spending that kind of money go for the 8351s. "If I'm happy with the Sennheisher HD650, I will be happy with the KH 310, right?" I think so, I don't have HD650, so I can't answer that honestly.
"Since you have a lot of experience with both the KH 310 and KH 120's, how similar is the voicing/tonality between the two? I'm not concerned about bass, I can always add a sub. I'm under the impression that in order to get the stellar mids of the KH310... that I need to actually get the KH310."
I've had the KH80s too! If on a budget I would go for the KH80 and the 750DSP sub...the KH80s are great value for money...but seems you are considering much more expensive stuff I would say go for 310s and the 750DSP sub...my opinion is that the KH120s aren't as good as the KH310s or the KH80s...
If I had the money in my bank account and was buying new...I'd probably buy both the KH310s and the 8341s from Thomann at the same time, and then send one set back before the 30 day return! (I think you might actually have to do it in 14 days, there's some finer print, but that's enough TBH).
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Could be the start of it...I first noticed it only when playing piano through them...it gradually got worse and I knew something was up...
Some of those are at 1m and some might be listening position which is about 1.4m. Do you have a measuring mic? ...if not even an SM58 would do, just do a measurement of both left and right tweeter a few inches away...if one looks way different to the other in REW distortion plots then something is up...
An even easier way to do it by ear would be to just use a sine wave generator (the one in REW is really good)...start at 1k and gradually increase the frequency...you should really hear something at 1.5k...compare both speakers at each frequency you stop on...you should be able to hear it...
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Yup I've got the MiniDSP UMIK-1 or whatever it is. If I get some time I'll look into this weekend. Bummer part is, I'm based in Canada so I don't get to deal with Neumann service - which I hear is fantastic. It's Sennheiser instead. Plus my warranty period is long over and I don't have the shipping boxes. Gonna be a serious pain in the ass, I think, if something is broken.
I agree, the KH120 is the odd man out in the family. A good monitor, sure, but overpriced for its level of performance, especially compared to the KH80 with its DSP. But if someone were looking into Neumann monitors now, I would advise them to just wait and see how the KH150 performs. It's got DSP like the KH80, but has a 7" woofer as well... I expect great things but they may not be available for months.
...getting a bit silly...but in case anyone needs to check out their kh310 tweeters and all they have is an SM58, lol...do it at 120mm...cal file for a 58 to match it to an m30 also included...
(hint, if you're wondering why they look identical in the included mdat...clear the cal file from the 58...then you'll see its actual response)...spl is accurate in that, just checked it with a calibrator...p.s. don't go trying to EQ speakers with that cal file, it's only going to be semi-accurate at 120mm...I might do one someday where I average about 50 measurements at different distances, would be handy to have if in a pickle...
(hint, if you're wondering why they look identical in the included mdat...clear the cal file from the 58...then you'll see its actual response)...spl is accurate in that, just checked it with a calibrator...p.s. don't go trying to EQ speakers with that cal file, it's only going to be semi-accurate at 120mm...I might do one someday where I average about 50 measurements at different distances, would be handy to have if in a pickle...
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Is it? Its pricing in Europe is very similar to its only real competitor, the Genelec 8030C which has also no DSP. The KH80 being 4" has to be marketed cheaper to be also competitive to the 8020, also we shouldn't forget that DSP and class D aren't really cost factors nowadays, just look at so many budget monitors like JBL, Kali, KRK etc... I am hoping that the KH 150 will be also priced similarly to the (quite dated) 8040B, which is quite a price step from the 5" models, but with modern woofers hopefully also having a significant bass and SPL increase and the addition of the Neumann MA1 rather a competitor to the even more expensive 8340.
Here an 8330 is only $30 more than a KH120... the KH120 has many more competitors than just the 8030, almost all of which are far cheaper. Remember the Dynaudio LYD 5 is one of the best monitors ever measured here and it costs $360 less a speaker.
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Not on a similar level like the Neumann and Genelec.
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Sure thing... you are talking maybe a decibel more waviness in the FR and a few degrees more beaming at the highest treble. If you can't work on LYDs the issue absolutely 100% the user and not the tools. This sentiment is obviously shared by the industry at large as both Genelec and Neumann have failed to dominate this market segment.
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Not only waviness in the FR and poorer directivity but most important of all too early bass drop even compared to the small KH80 and cheap LSR305, let me quote Amir:
This is a no go if you want to mix music genres with significant bass content unless you add some subs or do some heavy equalising.
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If you heard the lyds next to gen or neumann you can immediately hear how they are inferior speakers.
A very weak argument considering it is very well documented by now that Amir did not test the monitor with proper settings... it has adjustable low end extension and he did not test in the -10hz setting anybody without a subwoofer would use. With correct settings the 8030 has one semitone more extension, same with the KH 120 but the 120 has a broad Q +2dB hump in its bass response I found very annoying. On a related topic, though, anybody mixing bass heavy genres on 5" monitors has made some very poor choices... unless you are using a subwoofer, and you can have a LYD 5 + sub for the same money as two KH 120s without a sub in my country.
No, actually you can't... seeing as how I auditioned all three and settled on LYD 7s. I worked very quickly on them, every bit as fast as I do on my 310s. Their only drawback is the hiss from the amplifiers.
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He used them with the default settings like he does with all loudspeakers he tests, by the way if he would use the -10 Hz setting its distortion would look even less competitive to the Neumann and Genelec.
You always fail to address value in your posts. Always... as if speakers exist in a vacuum and everyone gets everything for free
One of these setups is vastly better than the other. Don't forget, the core of my argument is always the same: the KH 120 is a very poor value.
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Of course I address value, otherwise I would recommend some KH420 or Genelec 8361... Also KH 120 is not very poor value, it is better than your beloved LYDs and thus also costs more, unfortunately in your country more than in other. With your logic someone could compare also your LYDs to some Kali LP6 v2, JBL LSR 305 etc. and call the first ones very poor value... Also for example in Europe Revel loudspeakers unfortunately cost much more than in USA, but i would never get even the idea to call them very poor value just because they are more expensive in my region.
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And they'd be wrong, because the Kali is a mess of distortion with a wild FR and the JBL FR is all over the place. I don't think you have a good graps of what makes a studio monitor usable... clearly you do not mix music, only consume it, and I'd venture a guess that you only listen to a pre-approved and relatively short list of audiophile-approved yawners... You'd notice that I showed pricing for both Canada and Europe (France, specifically) and my argument still holds true... it's strange that someone with so many posts and likes has absolutely no clue what they're talking about. But I've noticed your eyes have a habit of sliding right over things you don't understand or disagree with in favor of going after low hanging fruit exclusively so that would go a long way to explain how you ended up this way.
I only post on company time. But nevertheless, good point - time to use the ignore function
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Really?
Also not forget that the LYD is 2 times of the Kali and 3 times the price of the JBL...
Of course it will be strange to you, it always is.
It is easy to detect when someone runs out of arguments, they just get personal with wild accusations that they cannot even prove.
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Oh, I had missed one gem:
Same at Sweetwater which is one of the biggest shops on the other side of the pond, https://www.sweetwater.com/c405--Active_Monitors I see 5 Genelec models on the first when you sort by popularity and not a single Dynaudio.
Really?? What is sold in that quality/price class more than those? Definitely not Dynaudio, here is the sales top 20 of the biggest studio shop in Europe https://www.thomann.de/intl/topseller_GK_stmo.html including 2 Genelecs and the "very poor value" KH 120 on third place.
Same at Sweetwater which is one of the biggest shops on the other side of the pond, https://www.sweetwater.com/c405--Active_Monitors I see 5 Genelec models on the first when you sort by popularity and not a single Dynaudio.
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