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Neumann kh 310 + hk 750 vs kh 420

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Thread Starter #21
I'm skeptical about speakers you can't send back (at least during a period of X days mandated by your local law), sounds like bamboozling.
I live in Italy, bought Neumann from Thomann.I'm sure you know this company, if you are in France, like your avatar says.They don't sell Genelec 8351 nor 8361.I asked to Italian shops, they will order the speakers only after you have paid.Then you need to wait 6-8 weeks.You are right,If you don't like maybe you can send them back.But I wouldn't feel comfortable in such a situation .
 
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Thread Starter #22
Another factor that lead me to Neumann is friends advices.People told me Genelec sound is metallic while Neumann more natural.
After Amirm review of Neumann KH 310 I decided to go for Neumann.
 

FrantzM

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#23
Hi

This forum leans a lot toward Genelec and for good reasons but looking at the performance of the KH310 with its analog filters and no use of DSP, I find it to be at the upper echelon of speakers reviewed here. I would like to see in a reviewed here what the combination of a KH750 + KH310 would be, since the KH750 brings DSP to the combo. I bet this would be a spectacular speaker system for the mid-field or even far field in a medium room.
FWIW I like the KH310 sealed design and of course its performance. For about $8000/pair, the combo of Neuman KH310 + KH750 seems to be a superlative, upper echelon performer.
 
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q3cpma

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#24
I live in Italy, bought Neumann from Thomann.I'm sure you know this company, if you are in France, like your avatar says.They don't sell Genelec 8351 nor 8361.I asked to Italian shops, they will order the speakers only after you have paid.Then you need to wait 6-8 weeks.You are right,If you don't like maybe you can send them back.But I wouldn't feel comfortable in such a situation .
https://www.global-audio-store.fr/e...=desc&search_query=8351B&submit_search=Search
can ship to Italy with a 30 day satisfaction warranty.
 

q3cpma

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#25
Another factor that lead me to Neumann is friends advices.People told me Genelec sound is metallic while Neumann more natural.
After Amirm review of Neumann KH 310 I decided to go for Neumann.
I really doubt it, but suit yourself. Something worth mentioning: Neumann offers only 2 years of warranty while Genelec is 2 + 3 year for thr replacement parts' cost.
 
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Thread Starter #26
For about $8000/pair, the combo of Neuman KH310 + KH750 seems to be a superlative, upper echelon performer.
It’s much less than 8000$. You get the combo with Ma-1 software for less than 5000€.
That should be 6000 $.
 

Pearljam5000

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#30
The treble(and tweeter itself of course) of the Neumann and Genelec are completely different, i actually wish I liked Neumann's more because they are cheaper lol, but they do sound a bit "dark" to me compared to Genelec which are brighter (in the best possible way) and livelier sounding while still being accurate.
I owned the only the KH120 but can assume this applies to the KH310 as well
 

hyperplanar

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#31
If you don't do any room correction or equalisation, it's true that sealed roll-off behaves better than ported if both are flat anechoically.
This conventional wisdom of ported vs passive holds up for passive speakers, but I don’t think this is the case here. The knee of the low frequency roll offs are quite similar in sharpness despite ported vs sealed due to the electronic fortification of the bass in these active designs—they are both anechoically flat down to <30 Hz unlike a passive sealed design which may have a long and smooth anechoic rolloff starting at a much higher frequency.

It is true that below the knee, sealed will be better complemented by room gain due to 12 dB/oct vs 24 dB/oct rolloff, but the F3 of the KH750 and KH420 are both low enough for this to not matter for most music. Also, they both have additional electronic high pass filtering that adds more rolloff.
 
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DjBonoBobo

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#32
The treble(and tweeter itself of course) of the Neumann and Genelec are completely different, i actually wish I liked Neumann's more because they are cheaper lol, but they do sound a bit "dark" to me compared to Genelec which are brighter (in the best possible way) and livelier sounding while still being accurate.
I owned the only the KH120 but can assume this applies to the KH310 as well
No, you can not assume that! It has been explained a few times why the KH120 sounds "dark" in greater distances.

KH120 Klippel, look at Sound Power:
Managed to grab Klippel's own measurement of the bigger KH120 of one of their webinars.

View attachment 63961
And now look at KH310 Klippel, very different and more even!

Neumann KH 310A Measurements
Acoustic measurements can be grouped in a way that can be perceptually analyzed to determine how good a speaker is and how it can be used in a room. This so called spinorama shows us just about everything we need to know about the speaker with respect to tonality and some flaws:

View attachment 94739
Edit: @thewas has been talking about this for at least a year... (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ann-kh120a-or-genelec-8030c.11109/post-314241)
 
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FrantzM

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#33

hyperplanar

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#34
KH120 Klippel, look at Sound Power:
Just one nitpick--this data isn't quite accurate, although the sound power is not too far off. It would be better to refer to the CEA2034 from here instead. The slope of the sound power doesn't fall off quite as much as the graph you linked to (and also, obviously the on-axis measurement is much more linear and correct here, unless they measured a defective KH120 or something).

I think a more useful graph to contrast the two would be their predicted in-room responses:



And, for completeness, the 8030C:
 
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Vintage57

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#35
IMO. If we were to measure the area of deviation above and below the lines they are extremely close.
The advantage to the Neumann for its extended and integrated bass response.
 

thewas

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#36
Just one nitpick--this data isn't quite accurate, although the sound power is not too far off. It would be better to refer to the CEA2034 from here instead.
True, just as an excuse, the linked CEA2034 data were posted half a year later after I posted that original post.

I think a more useful graph to contrast the two would be their predicted in-room responses
Depends on the listening distance and reverberation of the room, the PIR uses an assumption for both, for example when sitting closer to the loudspeaker or dried room the response at the listeners position trends more to the listening window response while when further it or more reverberant trends more to the sound power response.
 

AnalogSteph

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#37
Re: the original question, KH420s seem a bit oversized @ 2 m in a home environment. Yes they will work fine (minimum rated distance is 1.5 m, and noise floor is very low), but chances are they'll handle very high levels that you may never be able to use. They'll have narrower yet still well-controlled dispersion though... KH310s are substantially wider, they're designed for moving about in nearfield. Ultimately it'll also be a matter of how well-behaved the room is. As a home hi-fi listener you may be able to use the narrower dispersion of a KH420A but not so much its levels. Might be a niche for someone.

See your distance question. 105 dB SPL @ 1 m => 90 dB @ 6 m = 75 + 15 dB if you account for big peaks. Sounds like you never have too much horsepower at such a distance to me.
Unless you are listening inside an anechoic chamber, the level drop from 1 m to 6 m is essentially never going to be that extreme. There's a rule of thumb that levels at 2.5-3 m per stereo pair in a normal room will roughly equal those per speaker at 1m anechoic.
 

DjBonoBobo

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#38
Since the OP already has the KH310, listening distance is 2m and he has no equipment and knowledge for measurements and DSP use yet, my advice would be to just buy the KH750 + MA1 and try it. For me it was a really big step forward from the KH310 alone.
If it is not sufficient still, you can always sell the KH310, buy the KH420, keep the KH750 + MA1 and use them with the KH420. Or whatever.
 
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Thread Starter #39
I would like to thanks everybody for all the well-documented opinions.
I'm looking for the most extended and even bass response and not the ability of more SPL, that I will never be able to use in my apartment.
So yes, KH420s seem a bit oversized.I'm inclined to get the KH 750+ MA-1.
As soon as I can I would like to listen Genelec 8351b, not easy now in covid time.I live in a village, we are not allowed to cross province borders.
 
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Thread Starter #40
Only thing is not really clear for me is the directivity issue.I beg your pardon but I don't have a technical background.
 

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