Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[holdingpants01]

Look at the measurements - not unreliable subjectivity.

so you look at the measurements of genelec monitors then and say they are bright, or admit you're wrong

 

[SlothRock]

I wasn't meaning to offend you or your personal preferences. I understand that the KH 150 can be perceived as being brighter than the KH 120 in direct comparison in specific listening conditions. It's the other member who is known for regularly invoking the dubious claim that Neumanns are inherently "dark", after having only briefly listened to them (while not stating under which conditions did they come to such conclusion).

As for my personal experience, I am using the KH 120 daily for a year and a half now, and at first the treble even felt a bit too harsh for me (after having used the HEDD Type 07 MK2), but it looks like I got used to it. What is true, is that these speakers benefit from EQ that helps to get rid of some low-mid messiness due to desktop reflections. Then you can hear what they are really capable of. So perhaps this perceived "darkness" has more to do with suboptimal listening conditions rather than the tonality of the speakers themselves (as backed by their free-field measurements).

It is not that you are wrong in the sense that you are absolutely entitled to your preferences. However, it is important for all of us to understand the difference between objective reality and personal perception/preference. The point is that the un-brightness is not in the KH monitors --- It is in your perception and preferences.

All good - not offended and totally get your guys' stance on it and I'm in agreement

 

[RobL]

That is exactly the point. The Genelecs are brighter - and that is not a good thing for studio monitors. Studio monitors are not supposed to make the music sound better. They are supposed to tell the truth of what the music actually sounds like.

In PJ’s defence there is an explanation for his perception of the KH120’s sounding darker to him and it has nothing to do with non-flat on axis response. As this post by thewas explains, the wider directivity of the Genelec monitors put more high frequency sound power into a room in comparison to the Neumann.

 

[mj30250]

First, don't tell me to read Amir's reviews. I have already.

Second, the V1s already have lower IMD, they have way more dynamics in the bass (the 150s are pretty hard limited at 96dB), they have smoother DI (driver size changes are less dramatic)... So yeah. The V2s will be better.

I'm not seeing a large bass SPL advantage with the 310s at all (per Neumann's specs and Amir's THD measurements), and the DI is quite smooth for both. Of course, the V2s will have all of the advantages that a proper SOTA 3-way with a larger updated woofer would provide, but a substantial improvement would be surprising, especially for nearfield use. In any case, I look forward to seeing what Neumann will offer. A more powerful, MA 1-equipped sub to go along with the release would be a very pleasant surprise as well.

KH 150:

KH 310 A:

 

[dfuller]

I'm not seeing a large bass SPL advantage with the 310s at all (per Neumann's specs and Amir's THD measurements), and the DI is quite smooth for both. Of course, the V2s will have all of the advantages that a proper SOTA 3-way with a larger updated woofer would provide, but a substantial improvement would be surprising, especially for nearfield use. In any case, I look forward to seeing what Neumann will offer. A more powerful, MA 1-equipped sub to go along with the release would be a very pleasant surprise as well.

KH 150:

View attachment 339112

View attachment 339115

KH 310 A:

View attachment 339113

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Check S&R's measurements of both. The 310's 10% THD level for LF is much above its 3%, where the 150's 10% THD is right on top of the 3%.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I wasn't meaning to offend you or your personal preferences. I understand that the KH 150 can be perceived as being brighter than the KH 120 in direct comparison in specific listening conditions. It's the other member who is known for regularly invoking the dubious claim that Neumanns are inherently "dark", after having only briefly listened to them (while not stating under which conditions did they come to such conclusion).

As for my personal experience, I am using the KH 120 daily for a year and a half now, and at first the treble even felt a bit too harsh for me (after having used the HEDD Type 07 MK2), but it looks like I got used to it. What is true, is that these speakers benefit from EQ that helps to get rid of some low-mid messiness due to desktop reflections. Then you can hear what they are really capable of. So perhaps this perceived "darkness" has more to do with suboptimal listening conditions rather than the tonality of the speakers themselves (as backed by their free-field measurements).

I owned the 120A for several years so not exactly "after he briefly heard them"
And yes I think they sound darker compared to Genelecs especially
And an lot of people agree with me
Read some comments on Gearspace
Even this experienced reviewer says that the only downside of the KH420 is lack of sparkle at the top end, and they all share the same tweeter.

 

[mj30250]

Check S&R's measurements of both. The 310's 10% THD level for LF is much above its 3%, where the 150's 10% THD is right on top of the 3%.

Do you happen to have copies? I found these articles but all that's loading are the frequency response/filter charts:

Neumann KH 150 2-Wege Nearfield-Monitor im Test

Die in den letzten Jahren erschienenen Monitor-Modelle der KH-Serie von Neumann aus Berlin sind mit moderner DSP-Technik ausgestattet, ebenso der unlängst vorgestellte KH 150, der sich zwischen dem KH 120 und KH 310 einordnet. Von der Leistungsfähigkeit her ist der KH 150 dabei näher zum KH 310...

www.soundandrecording.de

Studiomonitor Neumann KH 310 im Test

Mit dem KH-120 gelang dem traditionellen Mikrofonhersteller Neumann ein fulminantes Debüt im Marktsegment der Nahfeldstudiomonitore. Der kleine Monitor konnte sich binnen kurzer Zeit an der Spitze der Verkaufslisten platzieren − völlig zu Recht hinsichtlich der Klangeigenschaften und des...

www.soundandrecording.de

 

[RobL]

 

[dfuller]

I owned the 120A for several years so not exactly "after he briefly heard them"
And yes I think they sound darker compared to Genelecs especially
And an lot of people agree with me
Read some comments on Gearspace
Even this experienced reviewer says that the only downside of the KH420 is lack of sparkle at the top end, and they all share the same tweeter.

I had to notch the 420's tweeter down 1dB to get it where I wanted, and I have a pretty treated room.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I had to notch the 420's tweeter down 1dB to get it where I wanted, and I have a pretty treated room.

We all hear differently and have different preferences

 

[dfuller]

We all hear differently and have different preferences

The 3 way neumanns have a somewhat flatter in room response than the 2 ways, FWIW. They trend a touch brighter in-room.

 

[teashea]

The 3 way neumanns have a somewhat flatter in room response than the 2 ways, FWIW. They trend a touch brighter in-room.

Quite untrue. Look at the measurements by Amir on the KH120 II's and KH150 compared to the three way designs. The KH 120 II's and KH150 are flatter.

 

[dfuller]

Quite untrue. Look at the measurements by Amir on the KH120 II's and KH150 compared to the three way designs. The KH 120 II's and KH150 are flatter.

I repeat: in room.

 

[mj30250]

View attachment 339137View attachment 339138

Thanks, I don't know why they weren't loading in my browser.

In looking at the 10% THD numbers, I'm still not seeing a dramatic LF improvement with the 310. From 100Hz down to 50Hz (where the 310's plot stops), the 310 looks to have anywhere from a 1dB to 3dB advantage in max SPL, except at 50Hz, where the 150 is actually better by a dB or two. I think it's more likely that the ported versus sealed boxes as well as positioning would impact in-room bass performance more than these differences. Both speakers require a sub if you're really looking to push bass volume.

 

[dickiefunk]

I’ve compared my KH120 to Focal Solo6 ST6’s and the Focals sounded noticeably brighter. However, I don’t put this down to the Neumanns being dark. The highs in the Focals sounded unnaturally bright to me.
When I mix on my KH120’s my mixes sometimes sound slightly dull.

 

[Ze Frog]

Hello everybody.

Really very impressed with the measurements of these speakers, absolutely incredible and am genuinely thinking of getting a pair of these and doing away with a lot of my equipment. Which trust me, I never thought I'd be saying that.

For years now I've been a D.I.Y'er of speakers, mainly because of audio industry snake oil and also for cost effectiveness. However D.I.Y has likely been more expensive over the years, chasing perfection which these speakers at least on paper are pretty much as good as it can possibly get at any price for what I've seen. Really quite an impressive value as well all things considered.

Anyway, going to start getting rid of stuff, pass on to friends and family and then I'm thinking something nice and simple like;
Neumann KH150's
Neumann KH750
Quad Arterra Play +
And that's a complete system.

Getting older now, so instead of spending money on new D.I.Y builds and different components I really just want to whittle it all down and instead of chucking money at stuff that really is a waste, spend it on music instead. I like physical media, not really a fan of streaming as if I buy something I want to actually physically own it, and to me part of the joy of Hi-fi is the interaction with whatever the format is. I guess I'm quite old fashioned when it comes to Hi-fi, but I can safely say I'm happy to move with the time's regarding these Neumann's.

 

[IamJF]

Depending on your room you could probably just use 2x KH120ii when combined with one KH750 and save some money.

 

[Ze Frog]

Hello everybody.

Really very impressed with the measurements of these speakers, absolutely incredible and am genuinely thinking of getting a pair of these and doing away with a lot of my equipment. Which trust me, I never thought I'd be saying that.

For years now I've been a D.I.Y'er of speakers, mainly because of audio industry snake oil and also for cost effectiveness. However D.I.Y has likely been more expensive over the years, chasing perfection which these speakers at least on paper are pretty much as good as it can possibly get at any price for what I've seen. Really quite an impressive value as well all things considered.

Anyway, going to start getting rid of stuff, pass on to friends and family and then I'm thinking something nice and simple like;
Neumann KH150's
Neumann KH750
Quad Arterra Play +
And that's a complete system.

Getting older now, so instead of spending money on new D.I.Y builds and different components I really just want to whittle it all down and instead of chucking money at stuff that really is a waste, spend it on music instead. I like physical media, not really a fan of streaming as if I buy something I want to actually physically own it, and to me part of the joy of Hi-fi is the interaction with whatever the format is. I guess I'm quite old fashioned when it comes to Hi-fi, but I can safely say I'm happy to move with the time's regarding these Neumann's.

Depending on your room you could probably just use 2x KH120ii when combined with one KH750 and save some money.

Yeah, that had crossed my mind, but it's partly just wanting the higher model really. Plus the KH150 is just slightly better regarding distortion etc.

I'm in UK, in a regular house, we have small living rooms compared to most countries, may go with the KH120 yet. Either way, KH120 or KH150 and being done with it is definitely on the card's.

 

[IamJF]

For "being done" I would strongly suggest to use the MA-1 measurement system. They should bundle it with speakers like KH150 anyways in my opinion.
And don't forget to do some experiments to find the best position for the subwoofer - EQ can't compensate a bad position!

 

[Ze Frog]

For "being done" I would strongly suggest to use the MA-1 measurement system. They should bundle it with speakers like KH150 anyways in my opinion.
And don't forget to do some experiments to find the best position for the subwoofer - EQ can't compensate a bad position!

Oh for sure, buying these without M1A seems like a fools errand really, especially when you have all those capabilities left on the table. It's amazing how you have people spending many thousands on speakers in the Hi-fi scene, when these, £2500 a pair and the measurements that are like the holy grail of measurements, absolutely astonishing. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I like an EQ curve, but it's nice to have a flat base on which to tailor that. 90% of the time though I love the flat level sound. In audiophile circles people like to dismiss flat frequency response, it's amazing how they miss the advantages of such even if they then use an EQ afterwards.

I'd never really looked at monitors much until very recently, my only experience of pro gear was PA type stuff, so was something that kind of kept me from looking to be honest, despite monitors and PA being massively different, I just lumped all pro stuff together.

Has anyone else here made the same decision I wonder? Seems like the perfect system. It's just finding a source that has CD and pre-amp in one box, so far the Quad Arterra Play + seems to be about the best solution as has XLR output.