Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[Koo]

Incredible performance but they are way too expensive for what they are. Kali Audio LP-6 V2 go down to 39 Hz too with 6.5" woofers and cost only 300 dollars per pair which is tenth of what these seem to cost. Of course they don't have internal DSP but at least for me UMIK-1+REW+Equalizer APO is a good enough combination.

I would like to see cardioid designs like the Dutch&Dutch 8C trickle down to more attainable prices. Biggest problems I've had with speakers are always the nasty boundary interferences which cannot be corrected via DSP. It's a shame so few speakers are designed to be used near walls like most people have their desks set up.

 

[Slyman]

Incredible performance but they are way too expensive for what they are. Kali Audio LP-6 V2 go down to 39 Hz too with 6.5" woofers and cost only 300 dollars per pair which is tenth of what these seem to cost. Of course they don't have internal DSP but at least for me UMIK-1+REW+Equalizer APO is a good enough combination.

I would like to see cardioid designs like the Dutch&Dutch 8C trickle down to more attainable prices. Biggest problems I've had with speakers are always the nasty boundary interferences which cannot be corrected via DSP. It's a shame so few speakers are designed to be used near walls like most people have their desks set up.

Nah the kalis have -10db at 39hz. The kh150 has -3. Big difference in my book. With kali you need a subwoofer no doubt to hear the lower bass, with the kh150 i guess you only need subwoofer for the subbass/the "felt" bass.

Also the kali's preference score is 5.4. Thats very good for its price but not super great i guess?

 

[LTig]

Damn the 300d even goes to 35hz at -2db. Well i guess that settles u can't get around a subwoofer no matter what i guess if its for full range music appreciation.

The first improvement I noticed with the sub engaged was that the mids were more clear and the second was that the bass was less muddy.

 

[SlothRock]

Thanks the lyd 48 only go to -50hz at 3db tho. The kh150 goes to 39hz. ^^but yeah bass heavy music i guess has a "feeling" component to it with the subbass.

Damn the 300d even goes to 35hz at -2db. Well i guess that settles u can't get around a subwoofer no matter what i guess if its for full range music appreciation.

But i mean you would surely be able to mix and master properly without a sub with speakers that go to 35db tho..?

Buy the 750 sub and apply dsp to the kh120s through it. That should be an easy choice imo.

Don’t have room for a sub is my only issue

 

[Pearljam5000]

They're excellent no doubt but...
The price of the KH310 was like the KH150s not long ago.
And once it was it increased the price gap between them is not big enough for me to justify hlrhe sacrifice
2-way vs 3-way
And 8 inch vs 6.5
And a bigger cabinet.
Yeah there's the DSP thing but it's not enough for me ro justify the price(also with the Neumann sub the KH310 has DSP also)
On the other hand I'm sure they sound amazing

 

[Sokel]

View attachment 249266

What do we see here?
(apart from a horrendous FR?)

 

[Trell]

What do we see here?
(apart from a horrendous FR?)

It’s just a graph of max spl vs frequency at a given THD level (3% and 10%).

 

[Sokel]

It’s just a graph of max spl vs frequency at a given THD level (3% and 10%).

1m I suppose (can't read the article,must subscribe).

 

[beagleman]

What do we see here?
(apart from a horrendous FR?)

That is not the FR, but maximum output level at a few different distortion levels.

 

[Sokel]

That is not the FR, but maximum output level at a few different distortion levels.

Ok,I feared it was a sweep at 3% and 10% distortion the way it seemed.

 

[Robbo99999]

Quick question: Would you guys buy a subwoofer to pair with the Kh150 or would F6 at 35hz be sufficient for you?

Subs can give you a bit more flexibility regarding bass management in your room to avoid troughs and arrive at a smoother curve at your listening position, and they'll also take a load away from your speakers which can potentially mean cleaner sound coming from your speakers in terms of less IMD distortion. I have a sub combined with my speakers and I'd say it's a positive improvement albeit I don't have the KH150 which are lower measured distortion than my 308p's. On a practical level I'd say get the K150's first and then decide if you want to try to combine a sub with them. In my situation I think I could benefit by having one extra sub to give that sub a bit of break - to lower distortion, but I have to think about space/location and the fact that it would be another £600 outlay. I haven't been able to match the bass definition & quality that I get in my best EQ'd headphones yet, but I think that's due largely to an imperfect room and to some extent higher distortion of the subs & speakers vs the headphones. Things can get more complicated when you start adding subs, but I'd say it's an improvement.

 

[Trell]

1m I suppose (can't read the article,must subscribe).

On my phone I see a popup that I can click away on the upper right corner. Then I can see the article. I do use an adblocker, though.

 

[heflys20]

Nah the kalis have -10db at 39hz. The kh150 has -3. Big difference in my book. With kali you need a subwoofer no doubt to hear the lower bass, with the kh150 i guess you only need subwoofer for the subbass/the "felt" bass.

Also the kali's preference score is 5.4. Thats very good for its price but not super great i guess?

Not to mention their higher distortion and apparent port resonance.

 

[JeanKazamer]

I'd have a n00bifile question here if i may .
So when we are looking at objective measured results and compare different products ( even from different categories to some degree )

Aren't we comparing active/dsp/heavily EQed , powered loudspeakers to " non powered " products here ?

The end result is obviously what matters, and i wholeheartedly agree that this kind of performance, with all the integration, without having to tune anything for a loudspeaker of this size is very impressive. But then it is kinda unfair to compare this to a loudspeaker that is just simply run through Amir's amps with some minor EQ adjustments ?

What i am trying to say here is that it is somewhat a complex task to understand how to objective compare and research active vs passive loudspeakers using the information provided.

We often get little bumps and deviation on FR response for example on passive units, where as active eq/dsp ones often look near textbook perfect
( obviously from design into the tuning using onboard electronics )

Simply unsure here how to digest all of that . If you guys have any thoughts that might help understanding ,please share

 

[Slyman]

I'd have a n00bifile question here if i may .
So when we are looking at objective measured results and compare different products ( even from different categories to some degree )

Aren't we comparing active/dsp/heavily EQed , powered loudspeakers to " non powered " products here ?

The end result is obviously what matters, and i wholeheartedly agree that this kind of performance, with all the integration, without having to tune anything for a loudspeaker of this size is very impressive. But then it is kinda unfair to compare this to a loudspeaker that is just simply run through Amir's amps with some minor EQ adjustments ?

What i am trying to say here is that it is somewhat a complex task to understand how to objective compare and research active vs passive loudspeakers using the information provided.

We often get little bumps and deviation on FR response for example on passive units, where as active eq/dsp ones often look near textbook perfect
( obviously from design into the tuning using onboard electronics )

Simply unsure here how to digest all of that . If you guys have any thoughts that might help understanding ,please share

I'm probably not the right one to answer this. But when using passive speakers people still use EQ/dsp, its just on computer that outputs music and not the speaker itself. I dont think using Equalizer APO to EQ passive speakers is very different from what happens in dsp speakers.

 

[JeanKazamer]

I'm probably not the right one to answer this. But when using passive speakers people still use EQ/dsp, its just on computer that outputs music and not the speaker itself. I dont think using Equalizer APO to EQ passive speakers is very different from what happens in dsp speakers.

Yes i agree and understand this . But when we look at rankings, or scores and the ramas, we don't see this reflected and it is somewhat confusing to understand what could be done and what is already implemented in each category.

 

[JeanKazamer]

as an example here ( i hope i ain't infringing some link rule ..my bad if i am )

using https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/scores.html?quality=High
Pierre's ranking system

Almost all of the top 10 and most of the top 20 loudspeakers are active/eq if ain't mistaken ?

But then you have the KEF and REVEL which aren't i believe, and they are playing in the top marks ...
I'd say this is really crazy performance as it is quite easy to understand how having control
over everything from box to electronics, in a designer standpoint pushes ceiling of possibilities.

( I like the fact that this site has the EQ,SUB and both info in addition to basic performance. )

 

[Sancus]

But then it is kinda unfair to compare this to a loudspeaker that is just simply run through Amir's amps with some minor EQ adjustments ?

It's not unfair. This is a product, compared to other products. When you heavily EQ a speaker you've done DIY modifications that 99.99% of users will never do, so it would be strange to assume they will.

It's also a misconception that you can reach this level of performance that way. Unless you're starting with a very high end speaker, I hope you have your own Klippel, because unit to unit variation alone will prevent you from EQing any cheap speaker anechoically flat. Not to mention, if there are nonlinear resonances, your EQ cannot fix them either.

If manufacturers want to make better products they are free to build actives and EQ them themselves.

 

[JeanKazamer]

I kinda phrased that wrong i guess, couldn't care less about being fair as you intended it , as i agree that it is up to the manufacturer to elevate their products
( specially in the 2020 + era... )

Was more referring to the potential, but as you pointed out might be impossible to achieve much more than what Amir boss is doing using EQ neway .

So how can one judge and compare potential performance between fully active and passive products ?

 

[PeteL]

I think we are talking a little at cross purposes. My first comment was meant to ask to what degree we perceive the positives these speakers bring, ultra flat FR, low distortion and so on - at what point is flat enough, flat enough or low distortion, low distortion enough. What are the limits of perception of ever smaller differences, if you will.

This carries across all setups and scenarios, because $3500 is $3500 regardless of room/usage scenario. $3500 might be one pair of KH150 or a pair of different speakers (standmounts or floorstanders) + a sub or two.

Ok, yes, I do think those positives are percievable.