Need help. Ears hurting after upgrade.

[rsc1]

Have you explored where the sound is coming from with your microphone? Hold it close to the speakers, then at various locations in the room, to see where that peak is strongest. It could be that you have something in the room that resonates at that high frquency.

Pull up the venetian blinds to see if that makes a difference. All those parallel slats might form some sort of interference grating or resonant structure.

Instructions unclear. Threw the couch out of the window now blinds are gone and 3 birds live inside my house.

I did, in fact, fix a light fixture yesterday that was vibrating and emitting a high frequency buzzing sound. Maybe that was it??

For starters put heavy thick curtains over the window, see how it measure if you flip the phase on sub and PEQ the first three peeks definitely crossed at 90 Hz (with phase that plays along better) and good luck.

After discussing with the boss (wife), “we” have “both” decided that a thick, noise reducing curtain isn’t a great idea. She did make a good point - there’s not much light in the room to begin with. So I might have to go for a thin curtain. Hopefully that still does something.

The harsh sound effect can't come from this peak,whatever that is.Harsh is coming from the 3-5Khz and it's intolerable to some people (like me,so I know OP's pain,I wouldn't stand it for a minute)

That’s the reason I bought the Wharfedales. I get listening fatigue really easy, and it just doesn’t sound right at the moment. Really frustrating, but I guess a part of the audiophile journey is tinkering and fixing these little issues.

 

[staticV3]

I did, in fact, fix a light fixture yesterday that was vibrating and emitting a high frequency buzzing sound. Maybe that was it??

That may very well be it. Please make another measurement when you can.

 

[Aldoszx]

I think (if you didn't already do) you have to calibrate your 2.1 system.
The volume must be aligned, otherwise you will hear a large amount of bass and this is not right.
This is a guide from Adam Audio.

The are also another good guides to do that, but this could be an example.
I've had the same issue with my 2.1 system until I've done a proper calibration.

 

[Zapper]

Threw the couch out of the window now blinds are gone and 3 birds live inside my house.

The birds will ruin your SNR.

Seriously though, do the venetian blinds make a difference? Closed, open, up, down?

 

[rsc1]

I think (if you didn't already do) you have to calibrate your 2.1 system.

The sub and the speakers are on the same vertical plane. There’s a phase switch on the sub, and when flipped to 180 there’s a null, so it’s set to 0. The volume on the sub is already set very low, because as soon as you turn it up, it turns into a muddy mess. I’ve actually turned it off for now. The bass coming out of the mains obviously doesn’t go as low, but sounds much cleaner.

The birds will ruin your SNR.

Seriously though, do the venetian blinds make a difference? Closed, open, up, down?

I can’t hear a distinguishable difference in normal listening (which makes me think the culprit might be the window?), but would have to measure again to double check. Will do that today. I just want a little bit less Treble Assault™ without making it sound veiled…

 

[ZolaIII]

@rsc1 I am afraid you need thick, dense and if possible from natural wool curtains. But curtains are curtains and you can draw them to a sides when not using, wanting light and view. At least that's my experience. It's not easy to properly integrate sub and in any other case it sounds horrible regarding it.

 

[tmtomh]

@rsc1 , a possibly dumb question here: how would you compare these two:

1. The sound of your new setup
2. The sound of your old JBL active setup when listening from a normal viewing/seating position that is outside their narrow optimal sweet spot?

I ask only because if you feel #2, while not ideal, still produced an overall better experience than what you have been able to achieve with #1, then why not just go back to the old setup? You appear to be on the verge of going down a potentially frustrating path of trying to absorb objectionable frequencies while not actually applying any thick or room-darkening treatments on the first-reflection locations. Not to mention, the large 17kHz spike you have noticed might not even be audible to you at all, let alone explain the listening fatigue and instant "it sounds bad" reaction you are having.

Sometimes the simpler path is the best, and sometimes trying to solve multiple problems (in this case 17k spike, apparent mid/upper-mid harshness, and bass boominess) caused by one's attempted improvement leads to additional complication (in this case light-but-still-absorptive window treatment and possible future bass treatment for subwoofer issues). It can become a game of Whack-a-Mole.

Of course you know your situation and preferences better than anyone else does, so this is just a thought.

 

[rsc1]

@rsc1 , a possibly dumb question here: how would you compare these two:

1. The sound of your new setup
2. The sound of your old JBL active setup when listening from a normal viewing/seating position that is outside their narrow optimal sweet spot?

I ask only because if you feel #2, while not ideal, still produced an overall better experience than what you have been able to achieve with #1, then why not just go back to the old setup? You appear to be on the verge of going down a potentially frustrating path of trying to absorb objectionable frequencies while not actually applying any thick or room-darkening treatments on the first-reflection locations. Not to mention, the large 17kHz spike you have noticed might not even be audible to you at all, let alone explain the listening fatigue and instant "it sounds bad" reaction you are having.

Sometimes the simpler path is the best, and sometimes trying to solve multiple problems (in this case 17k spike, apparent mid/upper-mid harshness, and bass boominess) caused by one's attempted improvement leads to additional complication (in this case light-but-still-absorptive window treatment and possible future bass treatment for subwoofer issues). It can become a game of Whack-a-Mole.

Of course you know your situation and preferences better than anyone else does, so this is just a thought.

Not a dumb question at all, you hit the nail on the head regarding my issue. I would say the JBLs in the sweet spot are an 8. Outside the sweet spot, a 6.5. Right now, with the muddy bass from the C910, I’d also give the new setup a 6.5. I wonder, if I upgraded the sub (to for example a sealed SVS), how much that number would go up in my current situation.

I can hear the potential in the new setup, and that’s partly my reason for posting this. I think it could sound really nice, it just needs some work (or I guess the room does). This apartment is only temporary, hopefully next year I can buy a house and will have a dedicated listening room with better acoustics.

Another reason for going passive; I love the functionality of the WiiM Amp. I no longer have to turn on the TV if I want to listen to music. Plus, it’s easy to just upgrade the speakers along the way when budget allows.

Also...who doesn’t enjoy buying new stuff??

 

[ctrl]

I ended up getting a WiiM Amp, paired with Polk XT20 mains and a Jamo C910 subwoofer (I know, go easy). I'm not sure if my expectations were too high, but after setting it up, it sounded like absolute garbage compared to the JBLs. Muddy, slow, and boomy bass from the sub, extremely harsh treble, non-existent midrange

The simulation (more details can be found here and in the following posts) shows that the impedance curve of the Polk XT20 causes a very wide 0.8dB peak around 6kHz in the frequency response of the WiimAmp - in an A/B comparison, this difference would be easily audible.

Simulated FR of the WiimAmp (left diagram) with Polk XT20 speaker load (right diagram):


Since the Polk XT20 speaker is tuned to be bright, adding an additional 0.8dB in the high-frequency range is certainly not advantageous. From 400Hz on-wards, the predicted in-room amplitude response (PIR) is almost linear (see black curve), which, as mentioned, is a bright tuning, and then there is an additional 0.8dB peak on top due to the altered frequency response of the WiimAmp (see red curve).



Additionally, there is a widening in the horizontal radiation pattern in the 2-4kHz range. This means that in small rooms, the side reflections contribute to a bright sound impression.

So different to the PIR, the in-room measurement in a small room might show a small hump in the 2-4kHz range.

Back to Best Buy the Polks went. This time I went for a warmer sound signature, the Wharfedale Diamond 225s. This made a significant difference; the sound is much more balanced now. But...it is still harsh and slightly fatiguing sometimes. How is this possible?

Unfortunately, there is no Spinorama available for the Wharefedale Diamond 225. The speaker's impedance frequency response has little effect on the frequency response of the WiimAmp. According to the simulation, there is a slight SPL increase of 0.4dB at 10kHz starting from 2kHz.

Simulated FR of the WiimAmp (left diagram) with Wharefedale Diamond 225 speaker load (right diagram, source sterophile):


According to the measurements by Stereophile Magazine, the Wharfedale seems more balanced without the grille.

If the Wharfedale 225 is tuned similarly to the 220 (for which we have measurements), you could, as paradoxical the suggestion may seem, achieve a less harsh and fatiguing sound by gradually boosting the 1.4-3kHz range with EQ in very small increments (each step +0.2dB, then listening). Sometimes, this makes the sound overall more balanced and less fatiguing.

Wharfedale 220 (It might be that the pronounced dip in the 1.4-3kHz range, followed by the peak around 4kHz, sounds fatiguing for some people)

If your in-room measurement of the Wharfedale 225 shows a pronounced dip in the 1-3kHz range, you can try to fill it (maybe lower SPL with PEQ above 4kHz a bit), so that your in-room response gets more even - until no positive effect is audible anymore - but as said only small 0.2-0.5dB steps if possible.

Check the HouseCurve graph. There is a 13dB (!) peak around 17kHz. What is going on here? Could the WiiM be faulty?

In this case, I would recommend a WiimAmp reset, just to be sure that not some setting is responsible for the issue.

 

[rsc1]

The simulation (more details can be found here and in the following posts) shows that the impedance curve of the Polk XT20 causes a very wide 0.8dB peak around 6kHz in the frequency response of the WiimAmp - in an A/B comparison, this difference would be easily audible.

Simulated FR of the WiimAmp (left diagram) with Polk XT20 speaker load (right diagram):
View attachment 355082 View attachment 355083

Since the Polk XT20 speaker is tuned to be bright, adding an additional 0.8dB in the high-frequency range is certainly not advantageous. From 400Hz on-wards, the predicted in-room amplitude response (PIR) is almost linear (see black curve), which, as mentioned, is a bright tuning, and then there is an additional 0.8dB peak on top due to the altered frequency response of the WiimAmp (see red curve).

View attachment 355084

Additionally, there is a widening in the horizontal radiation pattern in the 2-4kHz range. This means that in small rooms, the side reflections contribute to a bright sound impression.
View attachment 355086 View attachment 355087
So different to the PIR, the in-room measurement in a small room might show a small hump in the 2-4kHz range.

You are a legend for writing all this up. Thank you.
It aligns pretty closely with my personal experience. The XT20 + WiiM combo was almost painful to listen to in the small living room. It seems like it wasn't a very good combination to start with.

Unfortunately, there is no Spinorama available for the Wharefedale Diamond 225. The speaker's impedance frequency response has little effect on the frequency response of the WiimAmp. According to the simulation, there is a slight SPL increase of 0.4dB at 10kHz starting from 2kHz.

Simulated FR of the WiimAmp (left diagram) with Wharefedale Diamond 225 speaker load (right diagram, source sterophile):
View attachment 355089 View attachment 355090

According to the measurements by Stereophile Magazine, the Wharfedale seems more balanced without the grille.

This is interesting. How would you recommend I go about EQ'ing this for a flatter response? HS filter at -0.4dB starting at 2kHz?
Does the WiiM do this with most speakers you hook up to it? Is that a class D or an impedance thing?

If the Wharfedale 225 is tuned similarly to the 220 (for which we have measurements), you could, as paradoxical the suggestion may seem, achieve a less harsh and fatiguing sound by gradually boosting the 1.4-3kHz range with EQ in very small increments (each step +0.2dB, then listening). Sometimes, this makes the sound overall more balanced and less fatiguing.

Wharfedale 220 (It might be that the pronounced dip in the 1.4-3kHz range, followed by the peak around 4kHz, sounds fatiguing for some people)
View attachment 355105 View attachment 355106
If your in-room measurement of the Wharfedale 225 shows a pronounced dip in the 1-3kHz range, you can try to fill it (maybe lower SPL with PEQ above 4kHz a bit), so that your in-room response gets more even - until no positive effect is audible anymore - but as said only small 0.2-0.5dB steps if possible.

I will definitely try this, thank you for the suggestion. It didn't seem like there was a pronounced dip in my HouseCurve measurements, but again, not sure how accurate those are. Wish there were more measurements available for this speaker.

 

[kemmler3D]

“we” have “both” decided that a thick, noise reducing curtain isn’t a great idea. She did make a good point - there’s not much light in the room to begin with. So I might have to go for a thin curtain. Hopefully that still does something.

I would just hang something over the window (just stick a comforter in front of it for 5 minutes, even) and give it a listen / measurement. I think if the window is causing this, it will be obvious. If so, you can start real negotiations on window coverings.

 

[JaMaSt]

Knowing I wouldn't become a real audiophile by making smart buying decisions,

Lol.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I'll be blunt. Why are you torturing yourself with all these decisions even you don't think are smart? Drop all this stuff send it back. Go back to the JBLs, and maybe reposition them to get the coverage you want. I don't see an advantage if the JBL is an 8 in the sweet spot and 6.5 everywhere else while the alternative is a 6.5. You have gained nothing and lost some things. If you want to not have to use the TV for music get a preamp or cheap avr with pre outputs. I also think perhaps the other speakers aren't as noticeably different in the sweet spot because they have off axis response issues that make for a wider less precise center image vs the JBLs. The JBLs aren't highly restricted in directionality. Looking at your room maybe move the JBLs slightly wider. Perhaps put them on their own stand another 1 foot part on each side. Looks like you have room for that.

 

[rsc1]

I'll be blunt. Why are you torturing yourself with all these decisions even you don't think are smart? Drop all this stuff send it back. Go back to the JBLs, and maybe reposition them to get the coverage you want. I don't see an advantage if the JBL is an 8 in the sweet spot and 6.5 everywhere else while the alternative is a 6.5. You have gained nothing and lost some things. If you want to not have to use the TV for music get a preamp or cheap avr with pre outputs. I also think perhaps the other speakers aren't as noticeably different in the sweet spot because they have off axis response issues that make for a wider less precise center image vs the JBLs. The JBLs aren't highly restricted in directionality. Looking at your room maybe move the JBLs slightly wider. Perhaps put them on their own stand another 1 foot part on each side. Looks like you have room for that.

Thanks for your input. I wouldn't say I'm torturing myself, on the contrary, I'm enjoying tinkering with it and seeing how good I can get it to sound. That's the whole reason I signed up for this forum. The current setup being a 6.5 is part due to the slight harshness (that I haven't quite figured out how to EQ yet, but I'm learning thanks to @ctrl and all the other helpful members), part due to the sub just not sounding very musical. If I can fix those two things, I think it'll sound fantastic (better than the JBLs). Plus, that way I can keep the functionality of the WiiM Amp. The smartest or most logical path isn't always the most fun. To each their own though.

 

[Chrispy]

Hate that term of hardware being "musical" as it means what particularly? It can't play music? Music changes the audio performance particularly? Music is different from other audio reproduction? Can't say I'd buy the Jamo 910 particularly but that cheap of a sub wouldn't surprise me if it has issues. Maybe just a better sub would help....

 

[rsc1]

Hate that term of hardware being "musical" as it means what particularly? It can't play music? Music changes the audio performance particularly? Music is different from other audio reproduction? Can't say I'd buy the Jamo 910 particularly but that cheap of a sub wouldn't surprise me if it has issues. Maybe just a better sub would help....

By it not being "musical" I meant that the bass sounds like it has no definition. There's no layers. At low volumes also. It just all sounds like muddy boom if that makes sense. Which I guess could be ok for home theater purposes but isn't great for music, hence the term. I actually turned it off completely. A better sub would definitely help, I'm currently looking for one. Trying to find an open box SB-1000 but it's challenging...

 

[Chrispy]

By it not being "musical" I meant that the bass sounds like it has no definition. There's no layers. At low volumes also. It just all sounds like muddy boom if that makes sense. Which I guess could be ok for home theater purposes but isn't great for music, hence the term. I actually turned it off completely. A better sub would definitely help, I'm currently looking for one. Trying to find an open box SB-1000 but it's challenging...

I'd love to see it's frequency response, suspect it's one of those famous one note subs with a giant hump in response. I wouldn't particularly seek sealed but might depend on your taste.

 

[rsc1]

I'd love to see it's frequency response, suspect it's one of those famous one note subs with a giant hump in response. I wouldn't particularly seek sealed but might depend on your taste.

That is definitely what it sounds like - especially after the tight, punchy (although not very deep) bass the 308s have. Why would you not seek sealed? Remember, I’m in a small space.

 

[Chrispy]

That is definitely what it sounds like - especially after the tight, punchy (although not very deep) bass the 308s have. Why would you not seek sealed? Remember, I’m in a small space.

Yes, a lot of inexpensive subs is where the boomy kind of rep comes from with that sort of response curve. Just not really an issue with better sub design, and as long as you don't have box size restrictions ported/vented just tends to make more sense performance wise, particularly in the lowest frequencies as its more efficient there. Small space with need for a small box then sealed can be good too, as long as it fits your needs. Hope you're not judging ported on the basis of that Jamo. Your 308s aren't sealed....

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

I'd love to see it's frequency response, suspect it's one of those famous one note subs with a giant hump in response.

The 912 data can be found here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...w-cost-subwoofer-test-is-up-on-youtube.27802/ And I assume the curve for the 910 is similar in shape just without as much bass extension.

Trying to find an open box SB-1000 but it's challenging...

I managed to find one for -$50 us about 6 months ago. But they are rare. Just remind yourself to look every week, and eventually one will turn up.

I suggest you look at threads on setting up subwoofers and integrating them, that is a whole topic onto itself. But for now.... Try some things. Try turning the sub at 45 degrees and 90 degrees. Try moving it away from the closest wall. Slide it left and right. You may not like the sub, you may hate it, but at the very least you will be able to figure out what part of that is the sub (for things that are the same) and what part is placement (from location and orientation).

Small changes can make a huge difference. If my sub is pointed straight out, super null. If it is at 45 degrees, boom boom boom, and at 90? Pretty good.