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Is it ideal to Room EQ 20 - 20000 Hz? I need some advice.

jtk9412

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I checked some posts and comments, people say it is ideal to EQ below 300 Hz and sometimes below 500 Hz in some rare cases. And some say full range EQ is ideal if you want speaker correction as well. I own a pair of Edifier MR4s, which are budget speakers. Since it's high frequencies are too bright and it disturbs me a little bit, I went with full range EQ to also do a speaker correction a the same time.

I don't own any measurement speakers or know nothing about room EQ programs. I have a Rode NT-1A but I'm not sure if I could use it for measurements . I used my iPhone's back microphone and HouseCurve iOS app. I setted the smoothing to 1/12 octave and max gain to 15dB. I pointed the iPhone microphone towards the ceiling and took 10 measurements around my usual listening position, used Sine Sweep 5 times and then Pink Noise 5 times.

How well did I do? If I made a mistake like I should point the microphone to speakers, not ceiling etc., please let me know and I will measure it again.
 

ZolaIII

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You PEQ to 300~500 Hz (possible to 1 KHz or Q 50), then you FIR to 20 KHz and include phase correction to it and then if needed slope and shape highs roughly with PEQ again. Acoustic treatment is effective in mind and highs so recommend to get that part better. You do crossovers to sub's rigorous and in digital domain and so on. You need measurement microphone and REW to at least seriously start doing it. It's long and not easy journey. Automatic room corrections will do it better or worse to a certain degree but not all the way. Biggest gain is settling the room modes (first three peeks and deaps of course you do only peaks but deaps improve to some point also) but that's only the beginning.
 
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Sokel

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I checked some posts and comments, people say it is ideal to EQ below 300 Hz and sometimes below 500 Hz in some rare cases. And some say full range EQ is ideal if you want speaker correction as well. I own a pair of Edifier MR4s, which are budget speakers. Since it's high frequencies are too bright and it disturbs me a little bit, I went with full range EQ to also do a speaker correction a the same time.

I don't own any measurement speakers or know nothing about room EQ programs. I have a Rode NT-1A but I'm not sure if I could use it for measurements . I used my iPhone's back microphone and HouseCurve iOS app. I setted the smoothing to 1/12 octave and max gain to 15dB. I pointed the iPhone microphone towards the ceiling and took 10 measurements around my usual listening position, used Sine Sweep 5 times and then Pink Noise 5 times.

How well did I do? If I made a mistake like I should point the microphone to speakers, not ceiling etc., please let me know and I will measure it again.
Here's from an expert instead of opinions:




OK. I thought about opening a rat's nest by doing this, because it is a simplification of what sometimes has to be done. Some of the points have been made earlier in this forum thread and elsewhere, but it might be useful to bring the key factors in the process to one place. The marketing of room EQ algorithms often presents the impression that all combinations of loudspeakers and rooms can be "fixed", "calibrated" or the like, by means of measurements, math and equalization. In reality, much of the "math" does not include the exceptionally complex, non-linear and occasionally capricious psychoacoustics of human listeners. A critical missing element is that humans adapt to circumstances, bringing our perceptions into acceptable territory. Loudspeakers reproduce sounds. Musicians produce sounds. Both do it in rooms. We don't feel the need to "equalize" - even if we could - the instruments and voices of live music. Two ears and a brain separate the sources from the venue, and adapt to aspects of what the environment contributes to the overall performance. The venues vary, and some are even not ideal, but we manage to appreciate the excellence of fine instruments and voices in most of them.
The special problem with sound reproducing systems is that flaws get superimposed on everything that is played through them. These monotonous colorations can sometimes be beyond the ability of humans to adapt, and they need to be identified and attenuated.
Therefore, the "right way" begins with choosing well designed, timbrally neutral, loudspeakers. If the loudspeakers exhibit audible resonances and/or frequency-dependent directivity issues, it is not likely that measurements in a room will reveal such problems and that equalization is capable of compensating for them. It is often the case that the solution is better loudspeakers. Fortunately these can be identified with good reliability from competently made anechoic measurements presented in a "spinorama" format, following the industry standard. Amir, on this site, makes such measurements and others can be found at www.spinorama.org.
This done, set them up in your room and make a steady-state frequency response measurement at the prime listening position - the stereo seat. We will be paying close attention to the frequencies below about 400-500 Hz, where adjacent boundary effects and room resonances are active. Because much of the bass in recordings is mono (all of it in LPs) drive both loudspeakers simultaneously to evaluate what is happening at low frequencies. Measure them individually to find out what is happening at frequencies above about 400 Hz. If you are using bass management and one or more subwoofers the process is the same, and of course all subs should be running simultaneously. Why? Because multiple sound sources couple energy to room resonances differently when they operate in unison.
You can repeat this at different seats to see how much seat-to-seat variation there is - often quite a lot. Averaging several of these curves is a common practice, making the curves look much smoother, but hiding some awkward realities at low frequencies. Superimposing the curves on one graph is a more useful display of what is happening in your setup. You can then choose which humps/peaks to attenuate, depending on which seats are affected. Remember, at this stage we are looking only at bass frequencies. Narrow dips, however deep, should be ignored. Broad dips can be filled in, but keep the EQ boosts below about 6 dB. Aim for a smoothish curve that is tilted slightly upward at lower frequencies.
The benefits of this exercise will apply only to the seat or seats exhibiting similar shaped curves. That is why multiple-sub methods have been developed aimed at reducing seat-to-seat variations so that one equalization can deliver improved bass to several listeners. These are discussed in detail in Chapter 8 in the 3rd edition of my book.
Above about 400-500 Hz the "early reflections" curve in the spinorama should be similar to what you have measured. If you have well designed loudspeakers the room curve might have some smallish ripples caused by acoustical interference between and among the direct and reflected sounds - these are not problems to two ears and a brain and equalization is the wrong method of addressing them if they were - that is an acoustics issue. Spatial averaging over several microphone locations tends to smooth the room curve at middle and high frequencies, thereby reducing the likelihood that an auto-EQ algorithm (or a person) might try to "fix" something that can't be fixed, or that doesn't need to be fixed. Remember, any EQ applied to a room curve modifies the direct sound, and it the the direct sound that is a key factor in determining sound quality. If you began with loudspeakers designed to have the desirable smooth and flat on-axis/listening window response, they will be degraded.
Finally, pay attention to the overall shape of the room curve. Usually, at least for conventional forward-firing loudspeakers, the room curve will tilt gently downward. If the shape deviates substantially from the early-reflections spinorama curve then one can suspect something is amiss in the acoustical treatment of the room. If listening confirms a problem, then one is free to try modifying the shape of the spectrum with broadband, low-Q, tone-control kinds of equalization. When listening to recordings we get into the circle-of confusion dilemma, where it is difficult to know where the problem lies: the playback system or the recording.
Don't worry about little ripples. When I see exceptionally smooth high-resolution room curves I strongly suspect that something wrong has been done. The measurement microphone is no substitute for two ears and a human brain. Happy landings!
 
OP
J

jtk9412

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You PEQ to 300~500 Hz (possible to 1 KHz or Q 50), then you FIR to 20 KHz and include phase correction to it and then if needed slope and shape hughs roughly with PEQ again. Acoustic treatment is effective in mind and highs so recommend to get that part better. You do crossovers to sub's rigorous and in digital domain and so on. You need measurement microphone and REW to at least seriously start doing it. It's long and not easy journey. Automatic room corrections will do it better or worse to a certain degree but not all the way. Biggest gain is settling the room modes (first three peeks and deaps of course you do only peaks but deaps improve to some point also) but that's only the beginning.
I just made a PEQ 20 - 500Hz. When I am exporting FIR, should I go with 20 - 20kHz or 500 - 20kHz? Since I already made PEQ to 500Hz, I wonder if I should start from 20 or 500Hz for FIR.

Also is there a way to eliminate the latency that FIR creates?

Here's from an expert instead of opinions:


I read that more than 2-3 times and I could not understand it properly due to my poor English.
 

Sokel

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I read that more than 2-3 times and I could not understand it properly due to my poor English.
In a few words,correct bass-midbass up to 300-400Hz with your measurements and from then up correct according to anechoic data of your speakers IF they are correctable.
You can also use broad tone controls for the highs.

The above just scratch the surface,find to way to translate the quoted.

(poor english here too)
 
OP
J

jtk9412

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In a few words,correct bass-midbass up to 300-400Hz with your measurements and from then up correct according to anechoic data of your speakers IF they are correctable.
You can also use broad tone controls for the highs.

The above just scratch the surface,find to way to translate the quoted.

(poor english here too)
I am planning to room EQ up to 400Hz, and then gather my speaker's EQ'd data from Spinorama.org and merge these two EQs. I will delete Spinorama data until 400Hz and paste my measurements. For above 400Hz, it will remain the same from the Spinorama data. Is this ideal?
 

ZolaIII

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You just use PEQ's for bass, no need for FIR. You can try the averaging first virtual bass array method which is part of FIR also it works pretty much as first fundamental averaged bass trap, then you add target curve inversion (two steps) and speaker phase correction, and export it as impulse response FIR convolution.
FIR will have latency but with good implemented convolver (I use MConvolutionEZ plugin as JRiver's embedded one is horrible lagging) and using 96 KHz out and not exaggerateing number taps it can be acceptable even for latency sensitive content (videos not live events).
 
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MaxwellsEq

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I checked some posts and comments, people say it is ideal to EQ below 300 Hz and sometimes below 500 Hz in some rare cases. And some say full range EQ is ideal if you want speaker correction as well. I own a pair of Edifier MR4s, which are budget speakers. Since it's high frequencies are too bright and it disturbs me a little bit, I went with full range EQ to also do a speaker correction a the same time.

I don't own any measurement speakers or know nothing about room EQ programs. I have a Rode NT-1A but I'm not sure if I could use it for measurements . I used my iPhone's back microphone and HouseCurve iOS app. I setted the smoothing to 1/12 octave and max gain to 15dB. I pointed the iPhone microphone towards the ceiling and took 10 measurements around my usual listening position, used Sine Sweep 5 times and then Pink Noise 5 times.

How well did I do? If I made a mistake like I should point the microphone to speakers, not ceiling etc., please let me know and I will measure it again.
You have asked the same question in three separate posts and got the same answer from several different people.
 
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