watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Or did MQA give them the code to include royalty-free?
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MQA: A Review of controversies, concerns, and cautions
- Thread starter mitchco
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Or did MQA give them the code to include royalty-free?
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
It could also be related to this:
Q13. Where can recordings be found where the recording process was performed using MQA compliant ADCs?
A13. None out yet, but they are in preparation.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/ca-academy/A-Comprehensive-Q-A-With-MQA-s-Bob-Stuart/
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
These statements are interesting:
"In 2015 there was an attempt to recover an analogue version from the repaired machine. The audio path was from the analogue output directly at 192 kHz into a Pyramix workstation. To persuade the machine to lock it was necessary to manually apply resistance to the rollers (slowing the tape speed below 15 ips while the digital electronics locked at a rate near to 48 kHz. This was a heroic but difficult process. The resulting audio was not at the correct pitch and had noticeable ‘wow’."
Okay, but pitch correction is a pretty standard DAW plug-in these days....
And you don't need MQA to do it.
It's an interesting remastering story, but I don't see anything that has to do with MQA.
NorthSky
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Humor.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
NorthSky
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It's funny sometimes; we write with humor but we are also aware of some real possibility.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Info on how much bandwidth one needs to stream high resolution:
"Question: How much bandwidth is required to stream stereo audio at various bit depths and sample rates?
Answer:
CD quality (16-bits/44.1kHz) needs about 1.4Mb/second
24-bits/88.2kHz needs about 4.2Mb/second
24-bits/96kHz needs about 4.6Mb/second
24-bits/176.4kHz needs 8.4Mb/second
24-bits/192 kHz needs 9.2Mb/second
DSD (Single DSD, or DSD64) needs 5.6Mb/second
Question: So can I stream audio at higher quality levels than compressed MP3 directly over the Internet?
Answer: As you can see from the above answers, there is enough Internet connection speed on a global basis for stereo audio at 24-bits and 96kHz PCM sample rate, or DSD at a Single DSD (DSD64) level—and that is without any compression at all, just pure unmolested digital audio as it may be used during recording. If your listening room is in the US, or most countries in Asia or Europe, there is enough bandwidth to stream twice as much.
Granted, in many cases your kids only want to surf the Internet when you are in your listening room streaming audio. And since you are a nice parent, you want to allow them that by limiting your own streaming bandwidth. In other words, there are many circumstances that don't always guarantee a certain set bandwidth. The limit may vary depending on total usage, and if you are getting close to that limit you may experience dropouts.
The point here is that no compression is needed to stream CD quality and higher resolution audio in most countries around the world. If the music is indeed recorded in a higher resolution than CD, then it can be streamed directly over the Internet to most listening rooms around the globe. Any bandwidth limitations that may still exist today in some places will surely widen up significantly tomorrow (that is, very soon)."
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/questions-answers-mqa-interview-andreas-koch/
"Question: How much bandwidth is required to stream stereo audio at various bit depths and sample rates?
Answer:
CD quality (16-bits/44.1kHz) needs about 1.4Mb/second
24-bits/88.2kHz needs about 4.2Mb/second
24-bits/96kHz needs about 4.6Mb/second
24-bits/176.4kHz needs 8.4Mb/second
24-bits/192 kHz needs 9.2Mb/second
DSD (Single DSD, or DSD64) needs 5.6Mb/second
Question: So can I stream audio at higher quality levels than compressed MP3 directly over the Internet?
Answer: As you can see from the above answers, there is enough Internet connection speed on a global basis for stereo audio at 24-bits and 96kHz PCM sample rate, or DSD at a Single DSD (DSD64) level—and that is without any compression at all, just pure unmolested digital audio as it may be used during recording. If your listening room is in the US, or most countries in Asia or Europe, there is enough bandwidth to stream twice as much.
Granted, in many cases your kids only want to surf the Internet when you are in your listening room streaming audio. And since you are a nice parent, you want to allow them that by limiting your own streaming bandwidth. In other words, there are many circumstances that don't always guarantee a certain set bandwidth. The limit may vary depending on total usage, and if you are getting close to that limit you may experience dropouts.
The point here is that no compression is needed to stream CD quality and higher resolution audio in most countries around the world. If the music is indeed recorded in a higher resolution than CD, then it can be streamed directly over the Internet to most listening rooms around the globe. Any bandwidth limitations that may still exist today in some places will surely widen up significantly tomorrow (that is, very soon)."
https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/questions-answers-mqa-interview-andreas-koch/
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
And very often 100% correct. One does not have to be an 'insider' to be able to see the whole forest, not just the individual trees. Outsiders are unbiased, have no vested interests, and can often be considerably more circumspect.
MQA does absolutely nothing for the betterment of digital audio from a consumer or audiophile's perspective. It only exists to give a revenue stream to licensors. Yet more pathetic re-packaging of the same content tweaked to light up a blue LED that says 'MQA'.
From my perspective, it will fail dismally, simply because I will never buy music encoded with MQA. I will never buy a digital product that has an MQA decoding circuitry in it. If it becomes wildly popular and all music ends up encoded, I will be happy with the many thousands of uncompressed, un-molested CDs I have, and will obtain between now and then. I could stop buying music today and be happy with what I have, indefinitely.
Simply not going to support a completely superfluous knobbling of what has been 'perfect sound forever'.
I drew a line in the sand a long time ago on lossy formats. I've never downloaded or bothered with a single lossy algorithm for digital audio*. RBCD was, and is more than sufficient for me. I am in no way convinced that 'high res' is anything other than a waste of time, money and bandwidth/storage.
* apart from DD movies where the soundtrack is just that- an accompaniment to the main event- the picture.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
I agree with restorer-john on his sentiments but don't think it will fail.. well not any time soon. In 10 years or so something newer has been invented making the marketting ploy obsolete.
This happens with all formats... well vinyl and RBCD still exist, but this has been happening since Edison with tons of audio and video 'containers'.
Reason ... marketting and technical ignorance of the majority of the human population that buys audio based on 'promisses of higher SQ' which in the end 95% does not really care about at all.
IF they indeed 'de- wow and flutter' and FR correct analog masters that are used (which is what I think they say they do/attempt) then kudos to them.
Alas .. they couple it to a not needed codec that only exists to rake in royalties and money to cover the huge losses the company made in the years before (so I have read) and finally want to live in luxury as well ?
Bandwith these days isn't as much of a problem as when they started development of the codec. It became a non-issue by the time of launch. It will be even less of an issue in the future. Even with a saturated ether because everyone wants everything to be cordless... people hate cords.
This happens with all formats... well vinyl and RBCD still exist, but this has been happening since Edison with tons of audio and video 'containers'.
Reason ... marketting and technical ignorance of the majority of the human population that buys audio based on 'promisses of higher SQ' which in the end 95% does not really care about at all.
IF they indeed 'de- wow and flutter' and FR correct analog masters that are used (which is what I think they say they do/attempt) then kudos to them.
Alas .. they couple it to a not needed codec that only exists to rake in royalties and money to cover the huge losses the company made in the years before (so I have read) and finally want to live in luxury as well ?
Bandwith these days isn't as much of a problem as when they started development of the codec. It became a non-issue by the time of launch. It will be even less of an issue in the future. Even with a saturated ether because everyone wants everything to be cordless... people hate cords.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
DAT? HDCD? SACD (sort of alive)?
High resolution seems to be the kiss of death for a format.
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Yes very interesting is it not.
If at first you don't succeed, then try, try again
VS
if you don't study history you are doomed to repeat it.
There really is no substantial market for hires. Wisdom of the masses and all that.
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
I was thinking the various vinyl formats (only 2 survived, the single and LP), video like betamax, VHS (in various editions), video-8, Video 2000, U-matic, N1500, and other video tape and video disc formats.
El cassette, compact cassette, reel to reel, 8-track, DCC etc. etc...
CD-rom, CDi, mini CD
Likewise in analog photography where many formats were launched and died sooner or later.
All these formats above were launched, adopted (widely or less so) and eventually disappeared again. Of course there are always a few guys trying to keep some of it alive or collect it but you won't find many of the above formats in the majority of households is my point.
Just look at the crazy amount of audio and video codecs. Some are widely adopted (or forced upon us) others less so.
Advertising and seeking wide support for it and 'creating' the need to have the MQA logo and a light on it (why not purple light for instance ?) for manufacturers can 'help' launch things succesfully.
Regardless whether some folks want or see the need for it.
I don't need/want it either and see no benefits.
The guys at MQA ain't no fools and fully understand how to market it and get 'support' from manufacturers.
Walk into a hifi store and drop the word hires and salesman start yapping about MQA and how well they can hear the benefits..
Not fussing about it ... is nothing I can't do about it. Will have to let it go its course and ignore it (and what goes with it) myself.
Eventually it will go away again. Superceeded by another 'new and even greater' format.
Someday my grandchildren may ask... granddad what is MQA ? .... well that was an audio only format that once was popular but you can't find it anywhere anymore... [while watches 5D movies with pure surround sound and smell and touch sensations .. wireless]
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"It was the HDCD of 2018."
@amirm its round 6, we have dropped a few early rounds with the opposition coming out agressive and swamming us , you need to get back to your boxing, keep on your jab and maintain distance..
We need to sting them with a hard 1-2 to gain back respect and stop their advance, a upper cut inside might be wise too.
Lateral movement champ watch out for those hooks and dirty headbuts, trust your boxing nobody can live with your skills..
Ding ding.
We need to sting them with a hard 1-2 to gain back respect and stop their advance, a upper cut inside might be wise too.
Lateral movement champ watch out for those hooks and dirty headbuts, trust your boxing nobody can live with your skills..
Ding ding.
From your lips to Gods ear.
For sure, but I fear their understanding of the recording industries paranoia and support for it's DRM like attributes may end up putting the stamp of MQA on near all music recorded or transcribed for decades. The industry has always hated the idea of us having access to bit perfect copies of the master files and finds great comfort in MQA
It may well be too late, but without loud vocal opposition within the audiophile community we will be sunk.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
We all love to exercise our respective vocabularies in this particular arena, but I think you have articulated the narrative (I hate that term) better than most.
Kudos.
Maybe this is just me, but this argument strikes me as the equivalent of the old joke about two bald men arguing over a comb. I think the audiophile world is a niche within a niche which is irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of people, and within which high cost (whether that be for hardware or software) is actually sought after as it's as much about bragging rights and ostentation as it is about enjoying music (possibly more so). So MQA will find a niche in that market, for most people MP3 and other lossy formats are more than adequate, most people now seem perfectly happy to play their music via a $100 - 400 blue tooth speaker using their mobile phone or tablet as a source (and BTW, if they enjoy it then why not) and most out there probably see no reason to move to FLAC or other lossless codecs. In all honesty, the difference between high quality MP3 and FLAC is not what some tell us it is and I have a darned hard job trying to differentiate them. I won't be buying MQA downloads, the only reason I'll buy hardware with it is if the other features and price are good but I suspect the audiophile micro-bubble will buy into it. The usual magazine hire hands are already with the program making sure they do their bit to scratch the backs of their friends in the industry.
Stick to the OP, this is about MQA.
I’d rather see a more technical direction take hold, we have too much fire and brimstone and not enough sound objective analysis.
I’d rather see a more technical direction take hold, we have too much fire and brimstone and not enough sound objective analysis.
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