Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)

[deercreekaudio]

Nice diagrams! So how do you bass manage the center/surrounds/tops, and deal with the SHD 26mS delay to them in these setups?

My $0.02 for anyone doing this, as I do. Just use a switcher for left/front/subs between their pre-out's and the amps and done. Now you have two completely separate AVR and 2-ch systems, nothing to change on either going from one to the other such as having to manually change volume levels first, proper bass management on all speakers, proper LFE handling, etc.

Q. How do you deal with the SHD 26mS delay to them in these setup?

A. Various audio video receivers and processors (AVR, AVPs) use different methods for calibrating the delays between all the speakers in a home theater setup. Some use manual entry and some perform automatically depending on your system (Audyssey, ARC, YPAO, Dirac, etc.).

It's my understanding that most of these systems can handle delays such as the 26 milliseconds you're referring to in the SHD.

Once you have optimized all of the delay settings in the SHD-based stereo, then as far as the AVR is concerned that group becomes an ideal set of front left and right main speakers.


Q. How do you bass manage the center/surrounds/tops?

A. The same answer as above applies. Once you have integrated the SHD main front left and right channels, the rest of the home theater calibration will be handled by Audyssey, ARC, YPAO, Dirac, etc.

Since we're on the topic of delay, please check out our new tech blog: Using Delay Settings to Integrate your Audio System.

 

[deercreekaudio]

I really like this approach (Using an AVP with miniDSP SHD and Separate Power Amplifiers), and is choosing between going down that route or buy an Denon/Pioneer/Integra-receiver/processor with Dirac Live+BC further on.

Today I'm running a similar system, altough just with an 2*4HD between the receiver and amps. Using Pure Direct when listening to 2 channels music.

I just wish that the SHD would have an Home Theatre-input option on the analog in, with fixed volume level. That would make it more family friendly.

The beauty in having an SHD-based stereo system as the core of your home theater is that when you're in high fidelity stereo listening mode, you can stream pure digital from your sources: Roon, Tidal or your NAS, etc. This way you stay digital all the way through the Dirac Live process, and finally to the SHD’s excellent DACs.

When you are in home theater movie mode, then you will need to use the analog inputs to the SHD which is an unavoidable double conversion. However, the gain from using Dirac Live on the front left and right main speakers outweighs any double conversion compromise.

 

[rvsixer]

Q. How do you deal with the SHD 26mS delay to them in these setup?

A. It's my understanding that most of these systems can handle delays such as the 26 milliseconds you're referring to in the SHD.
Once you have optimized all of the delay settings in the SHD-based stereo, then as far as the AVR is concerned that group becomes an ideal set of front left and right main speakers.
Various video receivers and processors use different methods for calibrating the delays between all the speakers in a home theater setup. Some use manual entry and some perform automatically depending on your system (Audyssey, ARC, YPAO, Dirac, etc.).


Q. How do you bass manage the center/surrounds/tops?

A. The same answer as above applies. Once you have integrated the SHD main front left and right channels, the rest of the home theater calibration will be handled by Audyssey, ARC, YPAO, Dirac, etc.

Thanks for the reply. This topic keeps coming up in this thread!

So with your setups, you have to hope the SHD delay plus the actual delays needed for your speakers don't fall outside of the "room correction" distance limits. And no way to get the true LFE signal (3-120Hz), with content above sub crossover now going to the mains instead of to the subs. And mixing SHD Dirac mains/sub "room correction", with the AVR's "room correction" system, whatever it may be, on the other channels. Seems complicated to understand/setup/manage (not to mention having to remember to preset volumes when switching between systems, etc.).

Will stick with separated 2-ch and HT systems (sharing only mains/subs and their respective amps) via switchers. Each system uses its own native room correctiom, bass management, volume levels, proper LFE distribution, extra AD conversions, etc.:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dsp-shd-dac-dsp-and-streamer.4286/post-365964

 

[BounceHit]

Deer Creek Audio Wrote:

As an engineering oriented company we strive to participate in the ASR forum from a technical solution oriented perspective.
Our concept is that the SHD be the stereo core which is then surrounded by the home theater system. We recommend this for people whose primary use is high fidelity stereo music
Purchasing a miniDSP SHD with the goal of implementing a proper Dirac Live Project in a high fidelity stereo system is a paradigm shift from the classic audiophile practice of swapping components in and out to reach audio nirvana. This is why we offer no free trial.
In our opinion, when Dirac Live is implemented with it’s DACs plus high quality amplifiers and speakers the results is an experience with the depth, layering and imaging of sound that comes from being in the same space with the musicians.
Please see the next post.

I am hard core audiophile of more than 45 years. At one point in my life I was involved with a high profile audiophile company marketing what was, at the time, widely considered THE BEST speaker in the world, cost no object. I have heard LOT, and LOTS of high end audio systems with all manner of approaches to coaxing "life-like sound" from those little boxes full of tubes, transistors, MOSFETS, wires, drivers, and love

NOTHING, and I do mean NOTHING in my experience comes even close to the MiniDSP and properly implemented DIRAC when it comes to the price to performance enhancing ratio of the technology. I know plenty of people who pay more then $1299 for isolation platforms, much less components.

The changes are qualitative and quantitative. The single biggest things I notice, and probably in this order, are 1. soundscape width, depth, and "ambience" 2. integration of bass energy in a way that more closely mimics "live" sound 3. truth of timbre 4. unlimited dynamics. 5. dead silent background.

And for the record, I have no affiliation with MiniDSP, DIRAC, or Deer Creek Audio. Just a very happy consumer of the products.

BounceHit

 

[ahofer]

Deer Creek Audio Wrote:

As an engineering oriented company we strive to participate in the ASR forum from a technical solution oriented perspective.
Our concept is that the SHD be the stereo core which is then surrounded by the home theater system. We recommend this for people whose primary use is high fidelity stereo music
Purchasing a miniDSP SHD with the goal of implementing a proper Dirac Live Project in a high fidelity stereo system is a paradigm shift from the classic audiophile practice of swapping components in and out to reach audio nirvana. This is why we offer no free trial.
In our opinion, when Dirac Live is implemented with it’s DACs plus high quality amplifiers and speakers the results is an experience with the depth, layering and imaging of sound that comes from being in the same space with the musicians.
Please see the next post.

I am hard core audiophile of more than 45 years. At one point in my life I was involved with a high profile audiophile company marketing what was, at the time, widely considered THE BEST speaker in the world, cost no object. I have heard LOT, and LOTS of high end audio systems with all manner of approaches to coaxing "life-like sound" from those little boxes full of tubes, transistors, MOSFETS, wires, drivers, and love

NOTHING, and I do mean NOTHING in my experience comes even close to the MiniDSP and properly implemented DIRAC when it comes to the price to performance enhancing ratio of the technology. I know plenty of people who pay more then $1299 for isolation platforms, much less components.

The changes are qualitative and quantitative. The single biggest things I notice, and probably in this order, are 1. soundscape width, depth, and "ambience" 2. integration of bass energy in a way that more closely mimics "live" sound 3. truth of timbre 4. unlimited dynamics. 5. dead silent background.

And for the record, I have no affiliation with MiniDSP, DIRAC, or Deer Creek Audio. Just a very happy consumer of the products.

BounceHit

I’m sure this is true, but then again a lot of high end products make no difference at all, so it’s a low bar.

 

[BounceHit]

I’m sure this is true, but then again a lot of high end products make no difference at all, so it’s a low bar.

That’s fair, but the MiniDSP does work, and very, very well.

 

[Ricco275]

Deer Creek Audio Wrote:

As an engineering oriented company we strive to participate in the ASR forum from a technical solution oriented perspective.
Our concept is that the SHD be the stereo core which is then surrounded by the home theater system. We recommend this for people whose primary use is high fidelity stereo music
Purchasing a miniDSP SHD with the goal of implementing a proper Dirac Live Project in a high fidelity stereo system is a paradigm shift from the classic audiophile practice of swapping components in and out to reach audio nirvana. This is why we offer no free trial.
In our opinion, when Dirac Live is implemented with it’s DACs plus high quality amplifiers and speakers the results is an experience with the depth, layering and imaging of sound that comes from being in the same space with the musicians.
Please see the next post.

I am hard core audiophile of more than 45 years. At one point in my life I was involved with a high profile audiophile company marketing what was, at the time, widely considered THE BEST speaker in the world, cost no object. I have heard LOT, and LOTS of high end audio systems with all manner of approaches to coaxing "life-like sound" from those little boxes full of tubes, transistors, MOSFETS, wires, drivers, and love

NOTHING, and I do mean NOTHING in my experience comes even close to the MiniDSP and properly implemented DIRAC when it comes to the price to performance enhancing ratio of the technology. I know plenty of people who pay more then $1299 for isolation platforms, much less components.

The changes are qualitative and quantitative. The single biggest things I notice, and probably in this order, are 1. soundscape width, depth, and "ambience" 2. integration of bass energy in a way that more closely mimics "live" sound 3. truth of timbre 4. unlimited dynamics. 5. dead silent background.

And for the record, I have no affiliation with MiniDSP, DIRAC, or Deer Creek Audio. Just a very happy consumer of the products.

BounceHit

Perhaps you can help me with my decision:

I’m a digital and analogue music listener. I’m looking mostly for tone control for better performance at low volume. Would the MiniDSP work well in an high end audiophile system and could it be used for tone control bypassing its own dac and preamp functions? I would like to use my dac and preamp.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Perhaps you can help me with my decision:

I’m a digital and analogue music listener. I’m looking mostly for tone control for better performance at low volume. Would the MiniDSP work well in an high end audiophile system and could it be used for tone control bypassing its own dac and preamp functions? I would like to use my dac and preamp.

You can use digital output on the SHD and so not use its internal DAC. Volume control is all done in the digital domain so there is nothing to bypass in this regard. There is an all digital SHD Studio model but it doesn't have an analogue input (with ADC). You could use an external ADC if you wished though.

What you can do with an SHD is wildly more capable than a tone control.

If it is specifically loudness compensation that interests you then you may want to look at ADI's DACs. The SHD doesn't offer a dynamic loudness compensation but you could save separate presets to use for normal and low volume listening.

 

[tw99]

Perhaps you can help me with my decision:

I’m a digital and analogue music listener. I’m looking mostly for tone control for better performance at low volume. Would the MiniDSP work well in an high end audiophile system and could it be used for tone control bypassing its own dac and preamp functions? I would like to use my dac and preamp.

I agree with @Ultrasonic that the SHD is not necessarily a good fit for this, as it has fixed configurations that aren't easily adjustable on the fly. Unless you just set it up with a "low volume" and "normal" config and switched between them.

RME ADI might be a better fit, and would do the job of whatever DAC you have as well or better.

 

[Ricco275]

I agree with @Ultrasonic that the SHD is not necessarily a good fit for this, as it has fixed configurations that aren't easily adjustable on the fly. Unless you just set it up with a "low volume" and "normal" config and switched between them.

RME ADI might be a better fit, and would do the job of whatever DAC you have as well or better.

@Ultrasonic @tw99 understood I have to save presets. But can I manually adjust the frequencies to make a preset? As a dac I’d like to stick to my MSB.

 

[deercreekaudio]

Perhaps you can help me with my decision:

I’m a digital and analogue music listener. I’m looking mostly for tone control for better performance at low volume. Would the MiniDSP work well in an high end audiophile system and could it be used for tone control bypassing its own dac and preamp functions? I would like to use my dac and preamp.

Can you please clarify your requirements:

1. Dirac Live desired?
2. RCA or XLR analog inputs?
3. AES-EBU, SPDIF or TOSLINK digital outputs?
4. Subwoofer(s)?

Both the SHD and Flex Digital use the Device Console interface

 

[Ricco275]

Can you please clarify your requirements:

1. Dirac Live desired?
2. RCA or XLR analog inputs?
3. AES-EBU, SPDIF or TOSLINK digital outputs?
4. Subwoofer(s)?

Both the SHD and Flex Digital use the Device Console interface

1. Don’t even know what that is…
2. Ideally both, definitely RCA
3. I would need to connect either a MSB discrete or a Bricasti M3
4. No need.
I looked at DEQX and Anthem STR for now. But I would prefer a solution without preamp section of high quality for a high end audiophile system.
Many thanks.

 

[deercreekaudio]

1. Don’t even know what that is…
2. Ideally both, definitely RCA
3. I would need to connect either a MSB discrete or a Bricasti M3
4. No need.
I looked at DEQX and Anthem STR for now. But I would prefer a solution without preamp section of high quality for a high end audiophile system.
Many thanks.

Then a good alternative might be the miniDSP Flex Digital. The Flex without Dirac Live gives you two additional 10 band PEQ banks on the inputs, which are in series with the four PEQ banks on the outputs. This will give you great real-time flexibility in your tone control design. Selection Guide

 

[Ricco275]

Then a good alternative might be the miniDSP Flex Digital. The Flex without Dirac Live gives you two additional 10 band PEQ banks on the inputs, which are in series with the four PEQ banks on the outputs. This will give you great real-time flexibility in your tone control design. Selection Guide
View attachment 291365

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate your time for this. Perhaps I need something more plug and play. How about the Schiit Loki Max?

 

[Ricwa]

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate your time for this. Perhaps I need something more plug and play. How about the Schiit Loki Max?

If you want something that’s plug and play, my guess is you’re not going to like the miniDSP. There’s a learning curve and a certain amount of piddling around required. But if you want top-quality sound, I think you’ll be happy with the miniDSP SHD studio (with Dirac Live room correction) and your existing DAC.

 

[Stoutblock]

I am hard core audiophile of more than 45 years. At one point in my life I was involved with a high profile audiophile company marketing what was, at the time, widely considered THE BEST speaker in the world, cost no object. I have heard LOT, and LOTS of high end audio systems with all manner of approaches to coaxing "life-like sound" from those little boxes full of tubes, transistors, MOSFETS, wires, drivers, and love

NOTHING, and I do mean NOTHING in my experience comes even close to the MiniDSP and properly implemented DIRAC when it comes to the price to performance enhancing ratio of the technology. I know plenty of people who pay more then $1299 for isolation platforms, much less components.

The changes are qualitative and quantitative. The single biggest things I notice, and probably in this order, are 1. soundscape width, depth, and "ambience" 2. integration of bass energy in a way that more closely mimics "live" sound 3. truth of timbre 4. unlimited dynamics. 5. dead silent background.

And for the record, I have no affiliation with MiniDSP, DIRAC, or Deer Creek Audio. Just a very happy consumer of the products.

BounceHit

I agree. I had my system very close to being perfect to my ears but the SHD with Dirac Live took it over the top. I use it for its excellent ADC and DSP for my many RCA and XLR sources (which requires a switchbox prior to SHD input). My four custom target curves in Dirac Live are slightly different in slope to address the different responses of my digital and analog sources but also for tweaking genre preferences. All the usual positive audio buzzwords strongly apply regarding the quality of the response and listening pleasure of the system in my room. Like I said, it was close before but now it seems perfect.

 

[Ricco275]

If you want something that’s plug and play, my guess is you’re not going to like the miniDSP. There’s a learning curve and a certain amount of piddling around required. But if you want top-quality sound, I think you’ll be happy with the miniDSP SHD studio (with Dirac Live room correction) and your existing DAC.

@Ricwa @Stoutblock no noise added in the chain?

 

[Ricwa]

@Ricwa @Stoutblock no noise added in the chain?

None whatsoever

 

[Ricco275]

None whatsoever

It seems a DEQX preamp might be easier for me than the miniDSP. Also the Anthem SRT preamp seems good. As long as they don’t add flavour to the sound.

 

[Stoutblock]

@Ricwa @Stoutblock no noise added in the chain?

Compared to? Amir only measured the DAC in the SHD with digital input and with a SINAD of 112db it is certainly respectable. In my case I use the SHD for all my line level analog sources so the performance of the ADC is just as important as the DAC. I don’t even use the digital input on the SHD and prefer the performance my Gustard x26pro over the internal DAC of the SHD for converting digital to analog. I use the analog output of the Gustard to input to the analog input of the SHD like all my other sources. Yes I know this results in redundant digital processing. The SHD uses one of the best performing ADC chips on the market so I assume it is SOTA. Of course the DSP performance by itself is not transparent but it‘s function is to correct the output from the speakers in the room so that the end result is more transparent to the source. Dirac Live is the application that does this very well.

I would certainly assume the combination of having the ADC, DSP and DAC in the signal chain would be detrimental to SINAD performance?

Right or wrong, I always assume adding any component to an audio chain has the risk of increasing noise. Every component has to have an audio benefit to justify this risk. It is my opinion the final audio benefits of using the SHD and Direc Live to perform RTA and DSP with my system greatly outweighs any noise floor degradation (assuming there is any). I ended up removing a very high end line level preamplifier from my system and replaced it with the SHD and a high quality switchbox. I simply use the digital volume control in the SHD. I will mention the preamplifier cost many times what I paid for the SHD.

I am a strong supporter that RTA and DSP can improve any system‘s audio enjoyment performance within a given listening room but it cannot turn “water into wine”. However, it can make most any wine taste better…