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- #61
Thanks Michael. I am going to let the results soak a bit and then will update the first post and and a summary at the end.
Actually no. As I mentioned we are dealing with two completely different audio stacks in the measurements that I provided. Specifically, the default Windows player is going through the Windows audio stack with its dither component in place.
I re-tested, this time with Foobar2000 and Asio driver for the ifi DAC. Here are the results:
View attachment 2129
Green is ifi DAC connected to USB as before, using Windows audio stack.
Yellow again is the same old data with the data path now being through microRendu with my lab power supply.
The new graph in teal is using foobar 2000 using ASIO interface to talk to ifi DAC. The noise floor is now dropped by the same amount because of the removal of dither in Windows audio stack. And performance is now identical to using microRendu which likewise doesn't dither (it is a pass through device).
So in summary, microRendu has not improved anything when using it with my lab power supply. The output of the DAC is the same with or without microRendu. Using ifi Power supplied as provided by Sonore, substantially degraded performance however, as I showed before.
Objectively then, based on this data, microRendu has only potential to do harm. Again, I welcome other comments and data to the contrary.
No it is not.Is the Windows Media stack not bit perfect or are you suggesting that dither is responsible for this level difference or some other reason?
I just did that test with my laptop that has hundreds of processes running, a ton of open tabs to web sites doing whatever they are doing and as I showed in my last measurement, it did not improve with addition of microRendu.
Theories are good. We just need to add data to back them .
Many thanks, Amir, once again for a terrific job. I can only begin to understand the intricacies of trying to measure things like this via multiple scenarios. It takes great skill and care to try to get it right.Actually no. As I mentioned we are dealing with two completely different audio stacks in the measurements that I provided. Specifically, the default Windows player is going through the Windows audio stack with its dither component in place.
I re-tested, this time with Foobar2000 and Asio driver for the ifi DAC. Here are the results:
View attachment 2129
Green is ifi DAC connected to USB as before, using Windows audio stack.
Yellow again is the same old data with the data path now being through microRendu with my lab power supply.
The new graph in teal is using foobar 2000 using ASIO interface to talk to ifi DAC. The noise floor is now dropped by the same amount because of the removal of dither in Windows audio stack. And performance is now identical to using microRendu which likewise doesn't dither (it is a pass through device).
So in summary, microRendu has not improved anything when using it with my lab power supply. The output of the DAC is the same with or without microRendu. Using ifi Power supplied as provided by Sonore, substantially degraded performance however, as I showed before.
Objectively then, based on this data, microRendu has only potential to do harm. Again, I welcome other comments and data to the contrary.
Just wondering if you have any measurements that back up your highlighted statement? In other words a PS that makes s difference in computer audio?But, it highlights the whole power supply game, which is rampant in computer audio. And, beliefs, rather than measurements, are the key to that. Clearly, PS's can make a difference. The only problem is knowing which one actually makes a positive difference with a specific device beyond mere claims or beliefs. It would seem even the device manufacturer is clueless, which casts doubt on whether they made comprehensive measurements of audio performance themselves.
Maybe I misread Amir's measurements, but I thought it was only his lab PS that provided the "ideal" performance. Neither iFi PS did, I thought. Am I wrong?Just wondering if you have any measurements that back up your highlighted statement? In other words a PS that makes s difference in computer audio?
No, there is a clear difference between the power supplies, how audible that is is another matter.Maybe I misread Amir's measurements, but I thought it was only his lab PS that provided the "ideal" performance. Neither iFi PS did, I thought. Am I wrong?
This is what ifi says about the power supply I used which Sonore sold me as a package with microRendu:
"The central characteristic of iFi is in pursuit of the zenith in audio performance: it leaves no stone unturned. Well, the all new iPOWER is an exemplary example of this. Despite the fact that the iFi Ultra-Low Noise AC/DC adapter was exceptionally quiet and elevated the iUSB and iPhono to punch way beyond their respective categories, the all new iPower is even quieter, up to 10x quieter in fact."
Reads like an audiophile power supply to me. What do you think it is?
Some things are basic so yes, if you go to every tire store with a bald tire, they will tell you it needs replacement. Likewise, power line filtering and not letting 60 Hz get through is a fundamental basic.
I measured the iFi and it was 9.3 volts (unloaded) so I set my lab supply exactly to the same voltage. And yes, it was cooking with iFi. Not burning the hands but pretty hot.Amirm, I'm curious how many Volts you fed the mRendu while using your Lab grade supply?
If I may say so, you rushed your test publication which required some further more in depth analysis before going online.
An 8dB discrepancy required no peers to be questioned.That's what Peer Review is for (prior to publication).
Look what happened when we peered at it (publicly).
Actually no. As I mentioned we are dealing with two completely different audio stacks in the measurements that I provided. Specifically, the default Windows player is going through the Windows audio stack with its dither component in place.
I re-tested, this time with Foobar2000 and Asio driver for the ifi DAC. Here are the results:
View attachment 2129
Green is ifi DAC connected to USB as before, using Windows audio stack.
Yellow again is the same old data with the data path now being through microRendu with my lab power supply.
The new graph in teal is using foobar 2000 using ASIO interface to talk to ifi DAC. The noise floor is now dropped by the same amount because of the removal of dither in Windows audio stack. And performance is now identical to using microRendu which likewise doesn't dither (it is a pass through device).
So in summary, microRendu has not improved anything when using it with my lab power supply. The output of the DAC is the same with or without microRendu. Using ifi Power supplied as provided by Sonore, substantially degraded performance however, as I showed before.
Objectively then, based on this data, microRendu has only potential to do harm. Again, I welcome other comments and data to the contrary.
Not in my measurements. With a lab supply, it merely matched the performance of ifi DAC connected to the USB port of my laptop:With a low noise power supply, the mR improves the situation.
No. The complaints need to be addressed to Sonore which recommends the iFi power supply:It's not really fair to skewer Sonore over the iFi. They're selling it, and quoting the manufacturers claims. Complaints should be to iFi. Like most vendors, I doubt Sonore measures the iFi.