Master Complaint Thread About Headphone Measurements

[willard]

Then I stand corrected. The opinions and the writing styles look eerily similar. Also, my interlocutor (I'm Climateball on Reddit) cited Oratory's research, and there was a link to this comment:

AKG K240 55 Ohm Review (Headphone)

These are fit for the home studio of a twelve year old, though the $9 Sony would be better.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[raistlin65]

Then I stand corrected. The opinions and the writing styles look eerily similar. Also, my interlocutor (I'm Climateball on Reddit) cited Oratory's research, and there was a link to this comment:

AKG K240 55 Ohm Review (Headphone)

These are fit for the home studio of a twelve year old, though the $9 Sony would be better.

www.audiosciencereview.com

I love that your response on reddit to that other poster was majorly downvoted. How dare you ask them for evidence to support a claim? lol

I was downvoted a lot recently because I suggested that if an accurate amp sounds clinical with one's headphones, that means that it's the headphones that sound clinical, not the amp. Subjectivist audiophiles can't handle uncomfortable truths.

 

[Jimbob54]

Then I stand corrected. The opinions and the writing styles look eerily similar. Also, my interlocutor (I'm Climateball on Reddit) cited Oratory's research, and there was a link to this comment:

AKG K240 55 Ohm Review (Headphone)

These are fit for the home studio of a twelve year old, though the $9 Sony would be better.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Nah. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...00i-review-planar-headphone.18544/post-641088

Try looking for someone on here who is very fond of using bold type to emphasise their points. They are also prone to use links, particularly to oratory1990 work. Also, often at odds with @amirm, particularly around headphones.

It's like a really bad game of Guess Who.

 

[Sal1950]

It's like a really bad game of Guess Who.

 

[AdamG]

Thread notice: It is not recommended, to act as a “mouth piece” on behalf of a previously Banned Member. Posting their comments links and/or quotes will attract attention from Moderation Team. Especially so, if the Poster is also a new and unknown Member here.

 

[willard]

Thanks, Jim. That's useful.

If you read my first cite, Adam, you'll realize that I'm far from being anyone's "mouth piece."

 

[AdamG]

Thanks, Jim. That's useful.

If you read my first cite, Adam, you'll realize that I'm far from being anyone's "mouth piece."

It was not directed to you. Sometimes reminders like this become necessary. We have had many occurrences of new members doing exactly what I intended to deter with my post. I regret that my wording led you to take it personally. Had I intended that, I would have quoted you.

Welcome Aboard @willard !

 

[Voicey]

Hello amirm. When making headphone measurements, have the headphones been run in, or are they straight from the box?

Not sure this is the right place to post
(Smileys don't seem to work)

 

[Robbo99999]

I have no idea what that link is or what it's got to do with robbo.

Thanks, yeah, that's not me, but I do agree with bobbooo, in as much that pads are undeniably very important & very influential. (Just dropping in briefly, been "off-grid" for a few weeks, probably start coming back more now!)

 

[solderdude]

Hello amirm. When making headphone measurements, have the headphones been run in, or are they straight from the box?

Not Amir but afaik:

Some are new so not 'run in'.
Some are from owners so are probably 'run-in' for an undefined time period.

Then you would have to find out if headphones truly change performance over time (debatable)
Then you would have to take temperature into consideration.
To prove the existence of burn-in you would have to ask the question how many hours for which headphone and why so many hours.
To prove burn in you would have to measure it on a specific fixture and then be careful not to move it even a millimeter. Do all needed tests. Leave it on the fixture for days or weeks. Then do a burn-in process (which signals, which amplitude ?) and after certain time has passed let the drivers rest for half an hour or so. Then run a battery of tests and continue burn-in. You would have to do this until no changes occur and to be sure let it run for say 100 hours (so a few days).
During that time temp must remain the same, the fixture/headphone need to remain untouched, background needs to be silent during measurements.

All of this will take a lot of time and occupy the test fixture for days.

I did this procedure twice and could not find any burn in with 2 headphones I tried.

Consider brain-in and pad wear-in as well as not the exact same positioning on the head as well as mood changes from the listener are of far, far greater influence than the tiny measurable differences found by those that did such testing. Then the question remains how audible some measurable changes are.

 

[raistlin65]

Hello amirm. When making headphone measurements, have the headphones been run in, or are they straight from the box?

Not sure this is the right place to post
(Smileys don't seem to work)

To add to what @solderdude said, you should read these extensive headphone break-in tests conducted by Rtings

Is Headphones Break-in Real? 120-hour Burn-in Test

Headphones break-in, or burn-in, refers to the idea that the sound of headphones tend to change over time and certain headphones need to be used for a while before they settle into a more optimum sound. We put this idea to the test.

www.rtings.com

 

[solderdude]

Tyll also did some testing (K701 I believe) and also could not find clear evidence that performance changed in an audible way.

 

[Aresias]

I laughed so hard when I saw that the "review" of the Audeze Mobius was done on the auxiliary input instead of the USB input which completely destroys the sound quality and does not allow to activate the HD mod of the headset.
Also they didn't even mention that this is one of the only headset on the market that have true 7.1 (not fake virtual). It does have 4 planar transducers per earpiece and it's reconized has true 8.1 by Windows.

 

[mysiak]

..the Audeze Mobius..
Also they didn't even mention that this is one of the only headset on the market that have true 7.1 (not fake virtual). It does have 4 planar transducers per earpiece and it's reconized has true 8.1 by Windows.

Probably because it's not true..

Looks like one driver per ear piece.

And they use virtual surround..

"We've partnered with Waves, the world-leading developer of audio DSP technologies and Technical GRAMMY® Award recipient, to fuse their groundbreaking NX technology into Mobius. Able to process up to 8 channels of Surround Sound audio over wired USB, with Head Tracking and Room Emulation, Mobius is the first headset ever created to provide a truly believable and fully immersive Surround Sound listening experience"

 

[Aresias]

Probably because it's not true..

Looks like one driver per ear piece.

View attachment 175903

And they use virtual surround..

"We've partnered with Waves, the world-leading developer of audio DSP technologies and Technical GRAMMY® Award recipient, to fuse their groundbreaking NX technology into Mobius. Able to process up to 8 channels of Surround Sound audio over wired USB, with Head Tracking and Room Emulation, Mobius is the first headset ever created to provide a truly believable and fully immersive Surround Sound listening experience"

I'm using this headset everyday for gaming i can assure you that this is true 8.1 i can hear enemies from front and behind and know exactly were they are.
each transducters (4 per earpiece) and they are driven separatly and can produce a separate sound on this headset so this is true 8.1.
They don't use virtual surround.

I made several tests to test the positionning of the sound. There is absolutly no doubt that this isn't true 8.1 i can literraly close my eyes and tell with 45° precision were the sound comes from.

If it was fake surround i won't be able to determine if a sound comes from front or behind.

 

[BDWoody]

I'm using this headset everyday for gaming i can assure you that this is true 8.1 i can hear enemies from behind and know exactly were they are.
each transducters (4 per earpiece) and they are driven separatly and can produce a separate sound on this headset so this is true 8.1.
They don't use virtual surround.

If it was fake surround i won't be able to determine if a sound comes from front or behind.

Fresh From the Bench: Audeze Mobius Headphones Reviewed

High-end planar magnetic headphone manufacturer Audeze broke out of the mold with the Mobius: a wireless Bluetooth headphone capable of LDAC high-resolution playback, virtualized surround sound with built-in head-tracking, and a number of surprises Audeze continues to invent. In his review, Luke...

audioxpress.com

Quoting:
"The design team opted on a single 100 mm planar magnetic driver per ear cup (see Photo 3). “We wanted a very linear transducer that can reproduce low frequencies down to 20 Hz with essentially no dipole drop off,” he said.

With surround sound headphones, there are two paths one can take: true surround headphones pack many small drivers around each ear, whereas virtual surround headphones use one driver per earcup and simulate surround sound with processing. I probed on the decision to implement virtual surround, and Thiagasamudram said, “With either approach, you are trying to reproduce very small changes in level, phase, and frequencies to convince your brain you are hearing audio from outside your head. Our opinion is that it’s hard to achieve with multiple drivers per ear since it is very difficult to produce the many transducers within tolerance levels.” Also, scaling becomes an issue."

 

[mysiak]

I'm using this headset everyday for gaming i can assure you that this is true 8.1 i can hear enemies from front and behind and know exactly were they are.
each transducters (4 per earpiece) and they are driven separatly and can produce a separate sound on this headset so this is true 8.1.
They don't use virtual surround.

If it was fake surround i won't be able to determine if a sound comes from front or behind.

That's nice that you think that, but it still isn't true.

From the official web page:
"Full 3D emulation with wired USB support for popular surround sound modes (7.1/5.1)"

 

[solderdude]

Just 1 driver (100mm) even the info on the box it comes in is perfectly clear about this.

The same driver is used in the Penrose. The picture of the box clearly shows 1 driver.

 

[Aresias]

Fresh From the Bench: Audeze Mobius Headphones Reviewed

High-end planar magnetic headphone manufacturer Audeze broke out of the mold with the Mobius: a wireless Bluetooth headphone capable of LDAC high-resolution playback, virtualized surround sound with built-in head-tracking, and a number of surprises Audeze continues to invent. In his review, Luke...

audioxpress.com

Quoting:
"The design team opted on a single 100 mm planar magnetic driver per ear cup (see Photo 3). “We wanted a very linear transducer that can reproduce low frequencies down to 20 Hz with essentially no dipole drop off,” he said.

With surround sound headphones, there are two paths one can take: true surround headphones pack many small drivers around each ear, whereas virtual surround headphones use one driver per earcup and simulate surround sound with processing. I probed on the decision to implement virtual surround, and Thiagasamudram said, “With either approach, you are trying to reproduce very small changes in level, phase, and frequencies to convince your brain you are hearing audio from outside your head. Our opinion is that it’s hard to achieve with multiple drivers per ear since it is very difficult to produce the many transducers within tolerance levels.” Also, scaling becomes an issue."

i know exactly how does it works and still you are wrong. This headset does have true 8.1.
As i said i can ear the sound comes from front or behind and every directions.

 

[Aresias]

Just 1 driver (100mm) even the info on the box it comes in is perfectly clear about this.

The same driver is used in the Penrose. The picture of the box clearly shows 1 driver.
View attachment 175913

This is the Penrose, not the Mobius !
The Penrose is only Stereo yes.
Yes the Penrose can only drive all parts at the same time and not separatly.

But for the Mobius it's true 8.1 check again.