Master Complaint Thread About Headphone Measurements

[Skinner001]

I don't have time for software EQ, I get a headphone or IEM and keep it if it sounds good, sell it if it's not. Always better for me when it can output the sound you want without tinkering.

All this arguing over headphone measurements! You guys all listen to music........right?

View attachment 157085
Weird GB Flex!

Yeah, of course we do. However, why would we spend time here if we weren't fascinated with the hardware itself as well? A part of this hobby is delving into all of the info, for those with deeper pockets it's also collecting stuff etc.

If we were completely uninterested in hardware we could all get L30 + E30 + Senn 560s and call it a day. Or perhaps go up in price if we need more features - but stay at a point at which diminishing returns don't kick in yet.

It's up to every individual to decide what this hobby is for them. I like it all, the music, the hardware, the attempt to proliferate a scientific approach, the various issues surrounding measurements etc. etc.

 

[amirm]

Every audiophile is a music lover.

Every music lover is NOT an audiophile.

 

[brandall10]

@Amir

Don't know if this was already mentioned, but I guess it would be informative to show a post EQ measurement to see how closely the adjustments align to the target curve and perhaps impact on distortion, esp. as EQs tend to really alter the low end in a substantial way.

 

[Robbo99999]

@Amir

Don't know if this was already mentioned, but I guess it would be informative to show a post EQ measurement to see how closely the adjustments align to the target curve and perhaps impact on distortion, esp. as EQs tend to really alter the low end in a substantial way.

It's generally accepted that any implemented EQ on headphones will actually be as predicted due to headphones mostly being minimum phase devices (no room modes), so there's not really a need to re-measure the headphone after EQ has been applied because it will equal the predicted effect of the EQ filters. In terms of determining distortion after EQ, you can ballpark how much it would be based on the distortion measurements that are done at different dB levels (94dB / 104dB / 114dB), where you can see the effect of increasing different parts of the frequency range by those different 10dB increments, so you can infer distortion from those graphs.

 

[FireLion]

My brain hurts looking at your tests.

 

[amirm]

My brain hurts looking at your tests.

Follow a few of them and you will get the rhythm.

 

[anli]

First of all, want to make clear that I understand why we measure the amplitude of a headphone on an ear-canal.

What we must not forget, is the fact that that hump around 4-5kHz is not a property of the headphone itself but is an effect of measuring at the earcanal.
The headphone should be more or less flat in that area. This is also what Sean Olive said in a interview.

(Questions starts at 1:40, quotation at 2:30)

But the earcanal not only amplifies certain frequencies (due to resonances or reflections), it also changes the phase, again due to resonances an reflections.

While its nice to look at an graph with an actual and ideal frequency response, there is no 'ideal impulse response' on an ear canal fixture as well as an ideal group delay /phase response.
The pinna's and the ear canal's phase transfer function is just overruled by the one of the headphone itself, but still, the headphone's phase is of our interest.
(I know headphone itself is critical to say)

To make visible what I am trying to say, I made two measurement of the same headphone (k702)
One of them is an a flat plate and one of them on a self made ear-fixture which is not accurate in any way since I don't have a targent curve.

Magnitude of botch measurements, only to get an impression:

View attachment 155736

Impulse response of the measurement of k702 on ear-fixture:

View attachment 155737

Impulse response of the measurement of k702 on flat plate:
View attachment 155738
Phase measurement of k702 on ear-fixture:
View attachment 155739
Phase measurement of k702 on flat plate:
View attachment 155740

As seen in the pictures, the impulse response and the phase, which are both in our interest, are manipulated by the ear-fixture in a big way.
That's why I came to the conclusio, that for those measurements a different fixture, or at least a different sound pressure sensor does make sense.

I wanted to post this, not because I want to tell anybody that he is false and I am right, I just really like the scientific approach of this community has and thought we can have an interesting discussion without making suggestions to each other about any readings we have to do.
Actually I do some readings right now for the research at my university.

I really admire your work Amir, if I made a wrong impression on that.

Just want to add, IIRC, there is psychoacoustic fact saying to detect sound source direction we use both phase and level, but after 4-5 KHz - level (energy) only. That means diff on phases on your plots are mosrly above 5KHz , and these diffs are not too fundamental in practice

 

[Jabinho]

Please post all generic (non review specific) complaints, comments, etc. in this thread.

Hi
What do you think about this opinion and video ?

 

[randomusername]

What do you think about this opinion and video ?

I think Crin does the right stuff to hype up his youtube channel and crank views

 

[randomusername]

L30 + E30

solid choice if you want to listen music.
however, most ppl browsing review sites just suffer from a gadget acquisition syndrome, and music is only self-justification for that

 

[amirm]

Hi
What do you think about this opinion and video ?

I think it is a shame he used himself as an example of ranking working as opposed to us here. Heaven knows I give more zero ratings than anyone out there.

 

[RHO]

I think Crin does the right stuff to hype up his youtube channel and crank views

He is entertaining, you have to give him that.
And his measurements-database is quite extensive and useful.

 

[RHO]

I think it is a shame he used himself as an example of ranking working as opposed to us here. Heaven knows I give more zero ratings than anyone out there.

You would have used yourself as a good example too. But he could have at least mentioned ASR as one of the good examples. I totally agree.

 

[TK750]

I think Crin does the right stuff to hype up his youtube channel and crank views

I think this is pretty unfair, he's only even started making youtube videos recently. He also has more iem measurements than anyone by possibly close to an order of magnitude. I rarely see him overhyping or getting caught up in the latest fad too tbh.

 

[RHO]

I think this is pretty unfair, he's only even started making youtube videos recently. He also has more iem measurements than anyone by possibly close to an order of magnitude. I rarely see him overhyping or getting caught up in the latest fad too tbh.

That can all be true. That doesn't make @randomusername his statement false or unfair.
I think he has every right to hype his YT channel. Nothing wrong with that. And he's doing a great job boosting his viewership. Good for him.

 

[TK750]

That can all be true. That doesn't make @randomusername his statement false or unfair.
I think he has every right to hype his YT channel. Nothing wrong with that. And he's doing a great job boosting his viewership. Good for him.

It's more what's implied by it, i.e he posts whatever will hype the channel and get views. I agree with the latter of your statement.

 

[willard]

Robbo says hi from afar:

reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/rfquhj/comment/hoh9vjb

 

[Jimbob54]

Robbo says hi from afar:

reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/rfquhj/comment/hoh9vjb

I have no idea what that link is or what it's got to do with robbo.

 

[willard]

It's a link to the first comment from a revealing series. I'd rather let you read it yourself. Seems that Reddit gets parsed incorrectly.

I could be wrong and mistake the identity, however. In that case my apologies.

 

[Jimbob54]

It's a link to the first comment from a revealing series. I'd rather let you read it yourself. Seems that Reddit gets parsed incorrectly.

I could be wrong and mistake the identity, however. In that case my apologies.

There was an account called Bobbooo on here until earlier this year. It became someone else. But it's not robbo.