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Making further progress, TOPPING’s new flagship amplifier will be launched in late May!

Maybe musicians record with extra low distortion, in the hope that most people will play using systems that add distortion, to ultimately sound as they had intended ?

Haha. Yes. That was my thought when I read @Monk 's review. I suppose it's possible that some audio engineers abstain from intentionally adding 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion because they expect consumer playback systems to add a fair bit of that downstream.

But, seriously, I want to hear what the mastering engineer heard on their best monitors. I don't claim to have achieved that in my own systems, but I try. I don't think we can get closer to the truth than that at home. I suspect the B200's enable folks to get closer to this goal than most alternatives.

All of that said, for most consumers, audio reproduction is a pleasure sport. Whoever is having the most fun (or deriving the most enjoyment) is winning. Some folks need to add a little harmonic distortion to enjoy sound reproduction because that's just what they grew up with. Anything else sounds "clinical."
 
Anyone knows whether the B200 is in Amir's review pipeline?
One month ago it was not. I asked him two times. Topping has now more focus to more subjective reviewers. And Amir refused to ask the Topping guys, because Amir has stuff to test at least for the next 4 Months in his pipeline.

But:
The Topping people don’t cheat with their own measurements.
The difference between their measurements and Amir’s measurements is that theirs are weighted.

You can compare their B100 measurements with Amir’s B100 measurements and you see, that you have to subtract about 4.5 dB or so from the Topping measurements.

Then look at the difference between B100 and B200 of the Topping measurements.

1736207640045.jpeg


So you see: Just look, what Amir has measured with the B100 and subtract about 3 dB.

The B200 is the best Amp with more than 100 Watt at 8 Ohms out there.

But not at a great margin compared to a Benchmark AHB2.

By the way: the B in B200 does not mean Class B what many People think, also not „B“ Quality.
So it would not make any sense to wait till there is an „A“ Quality Amp in the topping lineup.

B just mean BRIDGED. They need this technology to squeeze out the last dB of sound Quality from the amp.
I think Bruno Putzeys wrote something about this theme.

You can pick up a pair of B200 Amps at the next Black Friday sale for US$ 960




I put my Christmas gift, The Topping B100 yesterday into my HiFi chain.

It was subjective an overwhelming experience for me.

Here is a little bit of the subjective Bla Bla, Bla, which I wrote to my friends, with them I do some listening sessions from time to time:

„Now I have humbly read all about Bob Dylan from your Rolling Stones 2012 article (many, many, many thanks!) and find everything comparatively unimportant, which I was lucky enough to experience tonight. After all, it was supposed to be all about music - and why shouldn't it be allowed to come from a transistor radio?

Nevertheless:
My XLR cables arrived yesterday. Today at 10 p.m. I was finally able to put the Topping B100 power amplifiers into operation. Funnily enough, they were connected via RCA cables...... The B100 mono blocks operate in Class B and have the world's best measured values for noise, harmonic distortion and also for the important intermodulation distortion (which simulates complex music signals).

The sound:

Oh Wow! Oh Wow! Oh Wow!

It makes a difference if the distortion is 3,000 times lower than with your AMR 777s.

Blackness. Total blackness. Power! Fear! Shock! Everything deep, pure, clear! Frightening in the coarse dynamics that I flinched at the drums during KUMMER by Trio, although played minimally quieter than today at noon via the Fosi. I thought something had fallen over in the room. The blow came out of nowhere.
Then the “separation” between the instruments on the one hand and the “aura” around the instruments on the other. I would never have thought that Golden Brown by the Stranglers could sound so audiophile (and the drums so fucking REALISTIC).

As always with new stuff, Suzanne Vega was the first with TOMS DINNER on the SOLTITUDE STANDING
So pure, so unbelievably pure.

How could I have listened to the Sonos Play One for years?
How could I have only listened to the Fosi V3 amplifier for a year?

So this is what it sounds like when a power amplifier simply disappears and becomes invisible in the signal path.

So even non-audiophile records are actually that good (or at least that pornographically detailed)!

That's how beautifully the Timmermanns developed my WaveMon 182/22 speakers.

Ray Brown's double bass suddenly sings at the bottom: structure, melody, which before was just droning. And on the Oscar Petterson I even discovered a piano note floating in the eternal 96 kHz reverberation of the sides, which even escaped me with you!
Things fade out without the new sound having completely displaced the old one. The old quieter tone sounds even further without being masked away..... Isn't that what Hiraga said about good tubes?

Ella and Louis, also with 96 kHz -goil!!!

I think I would have missed out on all this if I had bought the Neumann speakers with their built-in primitive digital amplifiers limited to 24 kHz....

I'm afraid that next Black Friday Gregor and you will each be EUR 480,- poorer.....

There is no alternative to the B100, at least for speakers with more than 90 dB efficiency.“
 
I loved every word of that.
But:
The Topping people don’t cheat with their own measurements.
The difference between their measurements and Amir’s measurements is that theirs are weighted.
You can compare their B100 measurements with Amir’s B100 measurements and you see, that you have to subtract about 4.5 dB or so from the Topping measurements.
I agree about Topping's measurements being reliable.
They generally set up every aspect of each test to get the best result possible.
This includes using low gain where there's a choice of gain, and using high input and output levels. But they are accurate and honest.
The thing for me is that the B100 doesn't have increasing distortion at higher frequencies, unlike every other amplifier, even the B200 or AHB2 and especially every class D amp.
 
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I loved every word of that.

I agree about Topping's measurements being reliable.
They generally set up every aspect of each test to get the best result possible.
This includes using low gain where there's a choice of gain, and using high input and output levels. But they are accurate and honest.
The thing for me is that the B100 doesn't have increasing distortion at higher frequencies, unlike every other amplifier, even the B200 or AHB2 and especially every class D amp.
Well - the sound is heavenly but there are two users (at least) whose B100 amps broke!

That was nothing I have known at the time when I ordered it at November 29.

My Friend Peter warned me Today. So look also in the B100 thread!

So please look at my post #1344 in this B100 thread.

My friend Peter wrote (I translated it with deepL):

"Hi,
what do you think of what oleg describes here? is this the oleg you wrote to about the timmermann speakers?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/topping-b100-amplifier-review.57036/page-66 "

I just read it today morning and my answer was:


"Hi,

I knew about problems: namely that the B100 reacts allergically and refuses to work when connected with RCA XLR adapter cables.
What was new to me was that my buddy Edd Nogg is now also struggling with a failure.

What Oleg describes doesn't sound good at all: he operates the B100 purely symmetrically. I don't really expect any problems!

I'll report back..... The next Black Friday isn't for another 10 months..... So you can wait and see if I'm still so satisfied by then.

I had ordered on 29.11.2024. I didn't know about the total failures back then.... Let's see....


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! I'll start a poll and ask the community to find out what percentage of users have problems. Perhaps a Bruno Putzeys amplifier (available from Audiophonics from EUR 500) would have been the wiser choice after all...... They are known to be very reliable."




Translated with DeepL.com (free version)



So - not everything is fine! Maybe the Topping B200 is also more reliable!
 
Well - the sound is heavenly but there are two users (at least) whose B100 amps broke!

That was nothing I have known at the time when I ordered it at November 29.

My Friend Peter warned me Today. So look also in the B100 thread!

So please look at my post #1344 in this B100 thread.

My friend Peter wrote (I translated it with deepL):

"Hi,
what do you think of what oleg describes here? is this the oleg you wrote to about the timmermann speakers?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/topping-b100-amplifier-review.57036/page-66 "

I just read it today morning and my answer was:


"Hi,

I knew about problems: namely that the B100 reacts allergically and refuses to work when connected with RCA XLR adapter cables.
What was new to me was that my buddy Edd Nogg is now also struggling with a failure.

What Oleg describes doesn't sound good at all: he operates the B100 purely symmetrically. I don't really expect any problems!

I'll report back..... The next Black Friday isn't for another 10 months..... So you can wait and see if I'm still so satisfied by then.

I had ordered on 29.11.2024. I didn't know about the total failures back then.... Let's see....


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! I'll start a poll and ask the community to find out what percentage of users have problems. Perhaps a Bruno Putzeys amplifier (available from Audiophonics from EUR 500) would have been the wiser choice after all...... They are known to be very reliable."




Translated with DeepL.com (free version)



So - not everything is fine! Maybe the Topping B200 is also more reliable!
I would say that if utilized under the exact same parameters, B200 would be less likely to fail if the very least because it is capable of much higher power demands.

-Ed
 
So - not everything is fine! Maybe the Topping B200 is also more reliable!

Or just more suitable for those who have loudspeakers requiring more power.
Especially those with speakers with lower impedance requirements.

The buyer has a level of responsability too.

Expecting an amp with rated 70 W into 8 Ohm being able to power a loudspeaker tower needing 100W, then blaming Topping when they fail is more than a little disingenuous.

The same people buy a Ford Ka and expect it to perform like a Ferrari.
 
But not at a great margin compared to a Benchmark AHB2.

20dB in IMD, -110 dB v -130dB for the B200.

The level of crosstalk is incomparible, as the B200 are dual mono (zero crosstalk). Amir mentioned the AHB2 crosstalk as - could be better.
 
Or just more suitable for those who have loudspeakers requiring more power.
Especially those with speakers with lower impedance requirements.

The buyer has a level of responsability too.

Expecting an amp with rated 70 W into 8 Ohm being able to power a loudspeaker tower needing 100W, then blaming Topping when they fail is more than a little disingenuous.

The same people buy a Ford Ka and expect it to perform like a Ferrari.
Topping B100: Well, a little more understatement would have suited Topping well. Just imagine if they had marketed the B100 as a 25 watt amplifier. Everyone would have been happy and everyone would have known that they still had 3 dB of reserve for impulses. This would have been particularly well received by tube freaks who otherwise go for the usual 3 watt devices, because the B100 is aimed at this audiophile clientele (those who want to switch from tubes to transistors). A real understatement in the power specifications, which would have quickly spread in the community, would have been an incredibly cool decision. But instead of this, Topping claims more Power than the B100 Monos really have. Not nice.
Do good things and talk about that. This would be marketing. As an example, they could do unweighted measurements and tell everyone bout this new conservative method and the even extremely good measurements…
Would be good marketing instead of mediocre marketing.

But what do I say! I am just happy, that they tell any measurements. Much better than nearly every other company.
And they sound sooooooo good!
 
I bought these primarily for their multiple inputs, no joke. I had wanted a place for 2 channel listening. In my home office, I use Rega R1s paired with a Jolida 302 tube amp. It's a good setup for that space, though not perfect. Also I can not listen loud at night without disturbing others. In my great room, I have Persona 3Fs powered by a McCormack amp. They sound pretty good, but the room itself—over 800 sq. ft. with high cathedral ceilings—poses challenges, and the speakers are spaced too far apart. I also am limited in volume at night here.

For my theater room, I needed a new center channel and ended up choosing the Revel C426Be, which was a nice upgrade from my Boston VR12. That led me to replace my front left and right speakers with matching Revel F228Be's. The room is acoustically treated, and as I found the best place for dedicated listening. I had been using an Anthem AVM70 processor and a Buckeye amp.

I encountered some issues with the AVM70 and switching profiles, which made it complicated for others in the house to use. To simplify things and enable both two-channel listening and theater functionality, I reconfigured my setup. My streamer, a Cambridge CXN, is in preamp mode connected to the B200's Input 2, while the AVM70 is on Input 1. This arrangement works seamlessly and sounds fantastic.

The pros: The midrange performance and imaging is outstanding especially vocals.
The cons: This setup doesn’t flatter poor recordings. I thought I needed a sub, however different tracks proved otherwise. similarly I was thinking these amps were not dynamic enough but further listening made me think it was also source driven not amp driven.
Overall, I’m very happy with the results. While I am sure there are better amps I am thoroughly enjoying these.
 
I came across a great quote from Amir that seems fitting here....
Anyone who thinks these superbly low noise and distortion audio products sound "clinical," should check themselves into a clinic!

Gave me a good chuckle! I still remain a huge fan of the B200s and could not be happier with them.
 
Hi,
I bought B200,
my audio setup will look like this:
Topping E70 (in DAC only mode) > Toping L70 pre-amp mode > 2xB200 > Sonus Faber Lumina V floorstanding speakers Sensitivity (2.83 V/1 m) [dB] 88.
Who can tell me how to set GAIN in L70 and B200 in combination Low & High (I am attaching tables with manufacturer data so you don't have to look)

What I found by ear when changing the gain:
L70 (PreAmp) / B200
Lo / Lo
- The sound is very quiet, barely audible even at maximum gain
Hi / Lo - The sound comes to life, becomes normal, the bass gains dynamics, the maximum volume is at 92% of the speakers' explosion
Lo / Hi - Similar to the above change, but the Hi gain of the amplifier makes a slightly smaller gain than the Hi in the Preamp. The sound comes to life, becomes normal, the bass gains dynamics, the maximum volume is at 88% of the loudspeaker explosion. It is hard for me to evaluate this combination. Something does not suit me in it. It seems to be less expressive. It seems to me that at high volume levels like 10 dB there is already overdrive B200
Hi / Hi - there are no compromises in this combination, you should use the volume normally. The maximum level will cause the speakers to explode as if it wanted to give out 220W of power per channel

my brain is leaning towards choosing one of the two settings, but I don't know if it's right:
L70 (PreAmp) B200
Hi / Lo - clear, probably clean sound, relatively safe for the equipment
Hi / Hi - you have to be careful not to exceed high gain levels, not to mention maximum
 

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The Lumina Vs are 4 ohm speakers and rated to 300W according to their specifications. Since the B200s only support balanced inputs, I'm assuming you would be using all balanced connections everywhere. Here's the settings I recommend.

E70 DAC = set to 5.0V balanced mode = max signal output of 5.0V
L70 Preamp = Low Gain = 6dB gain = max signal output of 9.98V
B200 Amps = Low Gain = 11.6dB gain = 37.94V
Max Power = V^2/R = 361W

In all low-gain modes you should have enough power to reach the max of the Lumina's since they are 4-ohm speakers. If you're hearing them being very quiet, there might be something wrong with the setup or cabling, or maybe you are using single-ended RCA connections to the preamp. The setup you have is very similar to mine and has a TON of power available :)
 
The Lumina Vs are 4 ohm speakers and rated to 300W according to their specifications. Since the B200s only support balanced inputs, I'm assuming you would be using all balanced connections everywhere. Here's the settings I recommend.

E70 DAC = set to 5.0V balanced mode = max signal output of 5.0V
L70 Preamp = Low Gain = 6dB gain = max signal output of 9.98V
B200 Amps = Low Gain = 11.6dB gain = 37.94V
Max Power = V^2/R = 361W

In all low-gain modes you should have enough power to reach the max of the Lumina's since they are 4-ohm speakers. If you're hearing them being very quiet, there might be something wrong with the setup or cabling, or maybe you are using single-ended RCA connections to the preamp. The setup you have is very similar to mine and has a TON of power available :)
Thanks for your answer.

I realize that the distortion should be the smallest in L/L mode, but even in H/H mode, no noise comes out of the speakers at a maximum gain of 0.0 dB.

I realize that the increase in volume measured in decibels is not linear.

Maybe I'm not used to it, because my second amplifier is the MF M6si with a volume knob (similar power for 4 Ohms about 220 W, I think it has larger capacitors).
L/L mode
-70dB Lumina practically does not make any sound, you have to put your ear to it, (M6Si would be practically in the starting position)
- 60dB the first sound appears without listening (M6Si would have the knob turned 1 hour)
- 30dB is moderately at the level of a kitchen radio (M6Si would indicate 8:30)
- 20 dB is louder but you can talk (M6Si would indicate 9)
- 5 to -10 dB is really loud (M6Si would indicate 11)
- In order to bring B200 to the volume of M6si at 12 o'clock you would have to add one gain to the High mode, i.e. as it results from the difference in the tables, about +11dB. In L/L modes the range ends
- In order to bring B200 to the volume of M6Si, where overload occurs and you can damage the speakers, i.e. at 2-3 o'clock you would have to add another gain for High mode, i.e. as it results from the difference in the tables, rounded 2x +11dB = 22dB. In L/H modes, the range ends.

besides, note the answer to my previous question why the L70 has better parameters for the RCA input

Of course, connecting the E70 DAC to the L70 PreAmp via XLR is probably 6dB louder compared to RCA, but it introduces another signal conversion
 

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You almost always want as much gain as possible as early as possible in your system. Potentially a really noisy pre-amp could alter that, but you rarely see that these days. In your case, you have a pre-amp with distortion so low that you can't hear it in Hi gain mode, so that's where I would set it.
 
how to connect 4x B200 for bi-amp speakers? I would need a preamplifier that has 2x2xlr and plays in parallel on 2x2 outputs? Is there one in human money? Or maybe there is some XLR splitter? I want to have the same volume level. I don't want to adjust the volume separately, it has to be equal for all 4 units.
 
Or maybe there is some XLR splitter?

I guess you could use an XLR splitter cable or something like this:


I've read that bi-amping can help to reduce IMD a bit, but that's already so low on the B200 that you probably would not notice a difference. The main reason to bi-amp is to bypass passive crossovers and take advantage of an external active crossover. For example:

 
besides, note the answer to my previous question why the L70 has better parameters for the RCA input

Of course, connecting the E70 DAC to the L70 PreAmp via XLR is probably 6dB louder compared to RCA, but it introduces another signal conversion

I think the issue is most likely that you are using SE to BAL signal path. Even if there is an extremely minor difference in the THD specs, its basically academic at those levels and way beyond audible, but a full balanced signal path is far better than single ended if your equipment supports it which the Topping gear does. You're converting the digital signal to a 4V or 5V analog wave, instead of a 2V or 2.5V analog wave. The SE input is not enough voltage for the low gain on the L70, which is probably your issue right there. You would need high gain of 19.8dB if you want to use single-ended, but I would recommend the full balanced signal path!
 
Topping E70&L70 supports XLR & RCA parallel connection I have both connected, I can switch on the L70 input on the fly. I can hear the +6dB addition for XLR, I know the values are academic, it's about the fact of the switch in the device.
 
how to connect 4x B200 for bi-amp speakers? I would need a preamplifier that has 2x2xlr and plays in parallel on 2x2 outputs? Is there one in human money? Or maybe there is some XLR splitter? I want to have the same volume level. I don't want to adjust the volume separately, it has to be equal for all 4 units.
What do you expect to achieve by bi-amping? If your speakers still have a passive crossover there is really no benefit (plenty of posts to read to understand this)

A miniDSP Flex will do exactly what you want. It is also a crossover if you are properly bi-amping.
 
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