Magnepan LRS Tweeter attenuation

[CT Sweden]

Hi,
I'm new to this forum and english is not my native languise but I hope I have give you good information to my problem.
I just got a pair of Magnepan LRS brand new for a good price, I understand they need a lot of time to break in and right now I belive they got about 30 hours
that is not near the 150 hours that is recomended but now I hear a lot of things I never noticed before some very fine details, but some that is disturbing to my ears.
The sound from this speaker is to me very natural, bass is good enough but these "over tones" on voices and some instrument is very disturbing.
When listening to for example Eva Cassidy Live At Blues Alley her voice seems to crack when she singing high notes, well it almost as it cracking I have no better words,
the same goes for some electric guitar solos on different recordings they seems to go way over what I ever heard before on any speakers it almost hurting my ears.
I mainly play americana, pop and country, not hard rock or metal.
So I considering to use the resistor when they are breaked in, but what is the difference to lower the treble VS. use the resistor?
I might say that my room is not very damped and I have a wife so I can't do what some of you are doing to your rooms, right now I'm playing on a Bluesound powernode that might be to weak to give the speaker the best, but I play at normal
volume. Hope anyone can help me out.

 

[DonH56]

It should not take 150 hours for them to break in, only a few minutes for the initial break-in and then maybe an hour or few hours for the rest.

Using the resistor or reducing the treble (EQ) will have generally the same effect. I suggest trying the resistor to see how it helps; that will also reduce the load on the amplifier.

It is possible the amplifier is clipping, making the treble harsh, though if you are at moderate volume I'd guess you are OK. I do not know what you consider "normal". Does her voice still "crack" if you turn down the volume? If not, you may be overdriving the amp, or speakers, or both.

HTH - Don

p.s. Welcome to ASR!

 

[Apesbrain]

I'm a big fan of both Magnepan and Bluesound, but I'm not sure they make the best combination. Do you have another amp you could try? Maybe borrow from a friend just to see if any difference.

A lot of what manufacturers call "break-in" is just you getting used to the sound of your new speakers. If you don't like the sound at 30 hours, I don't think you're going to love it at 150 hours.

The resistor will lower the volume of the "tweeter" part of the panel, like a "shelving down" of everything above 800 Hz or so. The treble control on the amp operates a bit differently and likely at a much higher frequency.

Use only the resistors that came with your speakers or something of equal power rating. The resistor will get warm/hot so give it breathing space.

 

[raindance]

You need a much more powerful amplifier.

 

[CT Sweden]

Hi everyone and thank you all for your input, first of all I'm aware that I need much more power but didn't consider my problem with the squeking hi notes
(is squeking the right word?) as a lack of power problem. I did go from a Bluenode streamer hooked up with my HarmanKardon 990 integrated amp, but when one channel stopped working due to overheating , it is a common problem with HK 990 and a lot of info is to find on the net, but is very hard almost impossible to find someone to repair electronics in my area so I sold the node put away my HK and got a Powernode and play on my XTZ speaker. I got a very big CD collection I find it very handy to rip and listening via streaming.
I read a lot of good things about the LRS+ and was considering to get those, but then the LRS was as I said very cheap (at least in my country) so I tought they could be a good start. But I'm new to Magnerpan so I tought I will get some info therefore my question resistor vs. treble. I do like the sound of the LRS and if I don't play very loud the sound is very good and I think I can live with them for a very long time, I agree that breaking in 150 hours seems overkill, out of the box they sounded very dull but after a nigh playing at low volume and normal listening daytime they open up and I don't think they will be much different over the time. I also agree that it is about getting used to the sound so the rest of the 150 hours is me breaking in and not the speaker ;-) The powernode has no outputs so I can't connect it to an amp, I consider go back to a node streamer and a good poweramp or an integrated amp, going to cost a lot of money but that must be the way to go.

 

[Rac1]

CT Sweden

Don't believe what is often said about Magnepans needing lots of power.

As long as the amplifier is comfortable with a 4 ohm load it should be suitable.

I have used my LRS with an NAD D3020 (30 watts per channel 4 ohms) with excellent results.

I would first experiment with placement -- remember the drivers are mounted side by side so that one needs to angle them to create proper time alignment (see the manual).

Also, play around with the distance from each other and you from them; keep in mind these are "head in a vise" sweet spot speakers.

I would also try the 1 or even 2 ohm attenuators that Magnepan supplies with the speakers.

These speakers aren't for everyone but if you like what they do they can be amazing.

 

[CT Sweden]

Hi Rac ande everybody else,

I'm now almost one month in on the new LRS there has been a lot of advice often in different directions about power and so on. What I did was get a 400 watts in 4Ohm poweramp a new streamer and changing my speaker cables to audioquest rocket 33. I have playing around with different placement, different levelings and the more stand up
leveling seems to be the best, there ar some "metalflips" so you can alter the levels and I also tried to put a book to have them standing right up and that gave a much
better sound, not that the sound is bad to begin with but they sounded better. I have tried to use the 1 Ohn resistors but changed back as I want to find out the best placement
first, but I have decreased the treble 2 Db and that works for most of the music I listen to. I haven't a clue what the 2 ohm resistors would do instead of decrease the treble. I agree with you this is not a speaker for everyone and I'm not shure I keep them but right now I try to find out if they are good enough for my taste. With a good recording they sounds wonderful and one thing that I found is that this speakers are revealing things that i never noticed before many of the time to the worst and I have checked with my CD's in headphones and there it is but as I said I never noticed it before, and they are not forgiving if a recording is "bad" it is almost impossible to listen to it as the imperfection is what you hear, and a lot of recordings are not that great recorded at least in pop and rock. Right now I'm looking to get raisers or maybe make a pair myself, but I have no clue how high I should make them so anyone that can advice me how high raiser should be please tell me.

 

[DonH56]

The LRS sensitivity is rated 86 dB using 2.83 Vrms so 2 W, meaning 83 dB/W/m using the typical 8-ohm standard. That is a pretty insensitive speaker and thus the need for greater power to achieve moderate listening levels. As an example, a conventional 93 dB/W/m speaker requires only 1/10th the power to deliver the same SPL as the LRS. Thus the oft-cited need for greater power; there is truth behind that claim. The amp must also handle 4-ohm loads (the ribbon models drop below 3 ohms), but otherwise Maggies are a pretty benign load as the phase angle is low -- near zero except through the crossover region(s). It is nearly a pure resistive load. I drove my first pair with a 75 W/ch tube amp and they were plenty loud as I was sitting close in a small room. When I upgraded to larger panels and put them in a bigger room I quickly discovered that I needed much more power.

IME tweeter attenuation is fairly common but depends upon the room and setup.

There are numerous ways to make or buy risers. A recent post I saw but cannot find with a quick search (maybe on AVS Forums?) showed a neat idea; he used a TV stand to raise the Maggies. It was something like this without the shelf or wheels: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MQG4BT...1-2-a094db1c-5033-42c6-82a2-587d01f975e8&th=1 A search should find something you can make work.

HTH - Don

 

[Prince Valiant]

There are numerous ways to make or buy risers. A recent post I saw but cannot find with a quick search (maybe on AVS Forums?) showed a neat idea; he used a TV stand to raise the Maggies. It was something like this without the shelf or wheels: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MQG4BTL/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=f5ea78ae508636a8088e9a3230207d39&content-id=amzn1.sym.bbf5d435-23c5-4afc-b6fb-4b480bbb7025:amzn1.sym.bbf5d435-23c5-4afc-b6fb-4b480bbb7025&hsa_cr_id=0&pd_rd_plhdr=t&pd_rd_r=83cdfda1-68ec-498b-b4d8-9df0f2a7045b&pd_rd_w=hj4ok&pd_rd_wg=xA2oD&qid=1694875806&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_1_img&sr=1-2-a094db1c-5033-42c6-82a2-587d01f975e8&th=1 A search should find something you can make work.

HTH - Don

This thread perhaps:

Alternative Stands for Magnepan LRS+

As lucky owner of a new pair of Magnepan LRS+ speakers I like to “raise” them 10 – 15cm above my living room floor. But in contrary to the speakers themselves to my idea the price for the stands (nearly € 300,-) is rather expensive. Next to that on this moment they are not available yet in the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[DonH56]

This thread perhaps:

Alternative Stands for Magnepan LRS+

As lucky owner of a new pair of Magnepan LRS+ speakers I like to “raise” them 10 – 15cm above my living room floor. But in contrary to the speakers themselves to my idea the price for the stands (nearly € 300,-) is rather expensive. Next to that on this moment they are not available yet in the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The ones I saw were a little different but that is exactly the idea, thanks! Those are perhaps more aesthetically appealing than just straight legs, too.

 

[DVDdoug]

I do like the sound of the LRS

I think you WANT to like them.

It's like you're getting a "reverse break-in". They make a good first impression but the more you listen the less you like them. That's not THAT unusual for a speaker that has "over-hyped" bass and/or treble. And dipole speakers (obviously) interact with room more so the room has a bigger effect and are just different from most speakers. You probably DO like that part of the sound.

they sounded very dull but after a nigh playing at low volume and normal listening daytime they open up and I don't think they will be much different over the time.

I'm pretty sure that's also your brain. I doubt they measure different in the day and night. ...That could happen if you close the drapes at night, or something else that changes the room acoustics.

 

[CT Sweden]

Etierevad, I belive that you right, I also find the top sometimes unbearable it almost hurts my ears, that's why I increased the treble, and maybe that's why I found some recordings not so nice to listen to.
I will go on and make some tweaks and see how it works out. Right now I believe that my 400 watt amp is good enough. Can you give me more info
on what turned out when you got the shelving filter? How did that alter the sound? How much did you pay? I might say that my living room is bigsomething like 24 m2
not to mych furniture and hardwood floorin other words not the best for music, but it is wwhat it is.
For the risers right now (living in Sweden) the rate for USD and shipping is almost what I paid for the speakers. I know about the TV stands I have give it a tought, but as
my knowledge in woodwork I tought that I could make a nice looking pair and also make some dummies to try out at first before I decide to do the proper pair.
I thank you all for your helping me out.

 

[CT Sweden]

Ok, when you say the tonal balance is much more preferable does it alter the annoing high frequences does and still sounding good and detailed?
Where did you got the shelving filters and how much does it cost? Is it a DIY project it or is it an add on in some way? I'm very intrested!
Yepp I think I can do some very nice looking risers in wood and now I got some good know how to what level I should rise them so I start out soon and keep you all informed.

 

[CT Sweden]

Etierevad thank you for your answer, then that's not an option for me. I have listening to many of my favorit tracks and one of the worst regarding the high treble that makes the song unbearable is Watching The Wheels from John Lennons Double Fantasy album taken from the signature box. Today I tried to use the 2 ohm resistors provided with the speakers and that took away the annoying harsh and squeeking high notes but I also got the feeling that the soundstage disappeared a little bit. Another favorite tune is Gimme Shelter by Stones I have both the mono and stereo version and it's difficult to hear the words of what Jagger sings, Katie Meluha's first album is not the greatest sounding album but with the 2 ohm's resistors she's sound like she had a cold, she was a young girl when it was recorded and should sound like a young girl but she's not. I also tried the 1 ohm resistors but that didn't help out very much, so I belive that the 2 ohms is the way to go. I also read somewhere that resistors could sound better or worse and those delivered with the speakers is not the best, is there some truth to this?
I'm not shure that the LRS is for me as it feels that my music collection is divided in two, one part sound great and the other part not that great, and it kind of turns me off that there is so much fiddling around like getting the risers, try out the resistors and in worst case alter the room and so on, so right now I can't see/hear the magic from this speakers the get them to sound good I need to turn up the volume so there is no easy listening at late evenings. I'm still gonna give them a chance, next week I'm going to listen to my old speakers XTZ and listen in the same chritical manner as I have done with the LRS.

DVD Dough said that "you think you want like them" no sir, I have had many different speaker over the years JBL, Cerwin Vega, Rauna speakers "made of concrete" Klipsh and Focal to name a few. What I do like is music and that's the only thing that matter to me, so I want a pair of speakers that sound the best for my type/taste of music and of course that I can afford moneywise., it might be that I jumped on the wrong train in this craze/hype with the LRS but I'm not giving up yet.

 

[NTK]

It's always hilarious on audio forums when people tell you you're not hearing what you're hearing.
The condescension from some on ASR is off the charts.

How condescending is this video that tells me I am not hearing what I heard

 

[Jim Creek]

Magnepan LRS speakers require a high current amplifier. Those speakers are power hungry. I doubt the Bluesound Powernode has the grunt to drive those Maggies properly.

The other thing is that Maggies require some setup trials. Many Maggie owners raise them up higher on Mye stands to realize their full potential. They are very direction so positioning is critical. Good luck.

 

[CT Sweden]

I agree, I think that one needs more than one set of speakers for different types of music, right now I got three different set the LRS the XTZ and a pair of Focal.
As I said I'm not giving up yet with the LRS as there is some great sound from these speakers when the recordings are well produced, but if not they are not that great.
I have many different releases of the same album in my collection and there is also difference between them many times a remixed or remastered album is not the best.
NTK, that was a very revealing video I'm happy that my system don't have a DVD to every song I play!

 

[tjf]

I've had a lot of magnepan experience (.7i/1.7i/3.7i) and in my opinion the best thing you can do to help the LRS is to add a sub and a high pass xover filter to the amp driving them -- not necessarily for more deep bass but to offload the bass duties from the LRS's -- if you can go back to your Powernode (assuming you have the current N330?) you can use bass management, the subwoofer settings have a "High Pass" filter that will limit how low the N330 amplifier will extend in the bass, which then limits how low the LRS's will go in the bass.

This has the added benefit of reducing the stress on the N330 Powernode's 80 watt UCD amp so you'll have more "usable" power available to drive the LRS's above the xover frequency (I suggest using a xover of 100Hz to 150Hz, with a suitable small subwoofer) as the LRS's have substantial bass distortion problems -- Magnepan planar magnetic drivers are TERRIBLE at producing bass below 200 Hz.

(Magnepan woofer diaphragms have very high bass distortion, yet people persist at trying to force these planar drivers to produce bass, which they cannot do)

If you can implement "bass management" with the Powernode N330 and a small sub I think you'll get much better results from the LRS's in the midrange, and the sub can be quite modest as you're just looking to offload the bass duties from the LRS's to the sub -- no need for a large expensive sub. If you're not using the Powernode then hopefully you can find a way to add a subwoofer and bass mgmt. capability from something like a MiniDSP Flex, etc.?

 

[tjf]

"These are quite inefficient speakers that exhibit a good bit of compression as well......especially when driven full range."

Yes, and a good reason for not driving them "full range" as comperession and very high levels of distortion are the result for the LRS's when asked to produce bass content below 200 Hz -- and the driving amp will have an easier time too when relieved of the task of driving the LRS's below 200 Hz

 

[Jim Creek]

I owned a pair of Magnepan MMGs for a couple of years. This is going waaay back to the early 2000s. They have a certain finesse that is very appealing. The imaging from these speakers is different in a way that I can’t explain. I ran them with a subwoofer and Marantz PM 8004 Integrated amp. The Marantz was conservatively rated at 100w into 4 ohms. It has a huge torroidal transformer and quite a bit of current.

My wife kept nagging me because of their monolith appearance. I had the off white covering which turned dingy after 2 years. That was it. The wife said either they go or I go. I thought about it for a few days and decided to sell them.

Bottom line is that they were fun, but not very balanced. The detail and clarity was good but not great. There may have been a bit of distortion going on in the upper mid range. But they were still fun.

After having experienced planars I wouldn’t go back.