I've listened to the 1.6. I find it to be sort of like what you mentioned and felt a little veiled and just a wee bit strained on dynamics. I personally don't care for the sound though they aren't bad. I haven't heard the 0.7.
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Magnepan 0.7 Opinions
- Thread starter Peter Leyenaar
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Jaimo
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@Sancus brings up a good point. The panels do have uncontrolled resonances. I can get my speakers to buzz at several different frequencies when I sweep them with a sine wave source. I had the covers off for a long time and could never find any delaminated wire that was buzzing. The buzz seemed to come from the panel itself.
You can test for this very easily - just create a slow 20 Hz to 16kHz sweep function with Audacity and burn a CD or save to a USB drive. Run the file at moderate volume at the dealer and listen closely for any buzz like artifacts.
Not sure about new models but older Maggie’s have the driver coil fixed to the magnetic base panel with a lowly pop-rivet in two different places. I’m sure that this is Magnepan’s effort to tame a couple of panel resonances
You can test for this very easily - just create a slow 20 Hz to 16kHz sweep function with Audacity and burn a CD or save to a USB drive. Run the file at moderate volume at the dealer and listen closely for any buzz like artifacts.
Not sure about new models but older Maggie’s have the driver coil fixed to the magnetic base panel with a lowly pop-rivet in two different places. I’m sure that this is Magnepan’s effort to tame a couple of panel resonances
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I had a VTL 75/75. Actually two of them for awhile.
I described it here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tour-of-vtl-amplifier-company.1804/post-45435
If anyone has #058 with ten turn bias pots (two on each side of the chassis) with all Vishay S102 resistors, and MIT caps with silver wiring then it is the one I had. I had it connected to some LaScalas a friend purchased for one afternoon. It had no apparent hum a faint hiss if you listened up really close.
It did have to return to California a couple times. Was actually the piece of gear that convinced me learning electronics wouldn't be that hard, and was worth doing. (my education was along Mechanical engineering lines).
Yep, that's the one I returned also. Later I went thru 2 pairs of the monoblocks, both developed the same issue of very unequal gain between the pair. After giving up and having a local guru look at my second set,, turned out to be bad solder points in the feedback circuit. Learned sometime later they had lots of problems with the wave soldering being done on all the products made in that era. After his repair the pair went on to give 20 years of trouble free service. Only had to replace input tubes every few years when they'd get noisy. Here's one of mine on some wacky iso feet I had. LOL
The Maggies I have seen have little "dots" at different places where the membrane is tied down to break up panel resonances.
The impact of the room is a mixed for any dipole. At wavelengths around the panel dimensions and up they radiate less to the sides and top/bottom so wall and floor/ceiling interaction is reduced compared to conventional speakers. However, the back wave leads to comb filter effects and of course if the speaker is angled then you get "side" reflections from the rear wave. I have historically damped the wall behind; less spaciousness, but much better image.
"Maggie slam" has been discussed for ages with respect to a perceptually boosted bass region.
I have barely heard the smaller models (aside from the MC-1's) but by and large felt the two-ways did not sound as nice as the three-way models. At my age that is likely less an issue since HF rolloff is around 10 kHz or so (probably less now since I've been spending all my time in a very noisy lab).
I miss my Maggies at times but have to say my new Revel's sound impressive and are probably more accurate.
The impact of the room is a mixed for any dipole. At wavelengths around the panel dimensions and up they radiate less to the sides and top/bottom so wall and floor/ceiling interaction is reduced compared to conventional speakers. However, the back wave leads to comb filter effects and of course if the speaker is angled then you get "side" reflections from the rear wave. I have historically damped the wall behind; less spaciousness, but much better image.
"Maggie slam" has been discussed for ages with respect to a perceptually boosted bass region.
I have barely heard the smaller models (aside from the MC-1's) but by and large felt the two-ways did not sound as nice as the three-way models. At my age that is likely less an issue since HF rolloff is around 10 kHz or so (probably less now since I've been spending all my time in a very noisy lab).
I miss my Maggies at times but have to say my new Revel's sound impressive and are probably more accurate.
OP
Peter Leyenaar
Member
- Thread Starter
- #27
Still looking at the various Magnepan speakers , LRS, 0.7, 1.7 are available to me, although no opportunity
to audition as I live far (minimum 7 to 10 hrs driving) away from dealers or individuals who are selling.
From what I have read on the various forums, owners are happy but have mentioned poor base extension and powerful amplifiers (300 watts) are required .
Now throwing Martin Logan Electromotion ESL in to the mix, only 3 to 4 hrs driving.
Built in low frequency and apparently easy to drive, 92db sensitivity
Anyone any thoughts on the ML ?
to audition as I live far (minimum 7 to 10 hrs driving) away from dealers or individuals who are selling.
From what I have read on the various forums, owners are happy but have mentioned poor base extension and powerful amplifiers (300 watts) are required .
Now throwing Martin Logan Electromotion ESL in to the mix, only 3 to 4 hrs driving.
Built in low frequency and apparently easy to drive, 92db sensitivity
Anyone any thoughts on the ML ?
Magnepans are not full-range speakers except for the largest models and arguably not then if you look at (LF) distortion measurements. But that is also true of many conventional "full range" speakers. I prefer to use subwoofers; I did with my MG-IIIa's, and I do with my Salon2's. Maggies are an easy load, almost purely resistive, but ~4 ohms and they are low=sensitivity so take more power than typical conventional speakers. You have to decide if the sound is worth that trade.
Most ML ESLs are hybrids with an ESL mid/tweeter panel and conventional woofer. Some (not sure which) include an internal amplifier for the woofer. An ESL's impedance drops low and HF, often to below 2 ohms, but since there is little energy that high they are not as taxing as it might seem. The woofer also helps boosts their sensitivity numbers compared to Magnepan's. The latest models sound pretty durn good to me; maybe 10+ years ago woofer/panel integration was a problem but they have since dialed it in. ESLs tend to beam more than Maggies but a lot of folk feel they Have "cleaner" sound and of course no crossover above the woofer means no integration issues over the frequency range of the panel.
The amplifier you require is dependent upon lots of things. You can start by using one of the on-line calculators to get a ballpark estimate. My maggies were about 83 dB/W/m and I sat about 8' away from a pair. Thus 1 W would drive them at about 80 dB average, about as loud an average level as I would like. 100 W lets a pair hit 100 dB, plenty loud for me in the range I use them (I have subwoofers for the bottom few octaves). I drove mine for many years with a 75 W/ch amp and they got as loud as I wanted. The advent of inexpensive, or at least affordable, high-power amplifiers has led to a power craze IMO where if you don't have a 200 W+ external amp you don't have enough power. Most folk would probably be surprised to see their average power to the speakers.
You really need to listen to them. ESLs and planar dynamics are similar and either sound much different than conventional speakers.
IME/IMO - Don
Most ML ESLs are hybrids with an ESL mid/tweeter panel and conventional woofer. Some (not sure which) include an internal amplifier for the woofer. An ESL's impedance drops low and HF, often to below 2 ohms, but since there is little energy that high they are not as taxing as it might seem. The woofer also helps boosts their sensitivity numbers compared to Magnepan's. The latest models sound pretty durn good to me; maybe 10+ years ago woofer/panel integration was a problem but they have since dialed it in. ESLs tend to beam more than Maggies but a lot of folk feel they Have "cleaner" sound and of course no crossover above the woofer means no integration issues over the frequency range of the panel.
The amplifier you require is dependent upon lots of things. You can start by using one of the on-line calculators to get a ballpark estimate. My maggies were about 83 dB/W/m and I sat about 8' away from a pair. Thus 1 W would drive them at about 80 dB average, about as loud an average level as I would like. 100 W lets a pair hit 100 dB, plenty loud for me in the range I use them (I have subwoofers for the bottom few octaves). I drove mine for many years with a 75 W/ch amp and they got as loud as I wanted. The advent of inexpensive, or at least affordable, high-power amplifiers has led to a power craze IMO where if you don't have a 200 W+ external amp you don't have enough power. Most folk would probably be surprised to see their average power to the speakers.
You really need to listen to them. ESLs and planar dynamics are similar and either sound much different than conventional speakers.
IME/IMO - Don
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I've been an open baffle fan since I first heard (and bought) the Martin Logan CLS 30 years ago.
Since then I've owned pretty much every OB speaker, from Maggies to Apogees to Orions and many inbetween.
I've flirted with box speakers, but always come back to OB.
The various OBs I've owned measure differently, but they all share a similar 'liveness'.
I've been able to manipulate my DIY open baffles into having similar measurements as my box speakers (and vice versa) but their essential nature doesn't change.
You need to audition before you buy.
Maggies measure worse than pretty much every panel OB I've tried, and much worse than the Revels of this world.
But if you like the sound that won't matter.
Personally I'd suggest building your own. Easy, and with digital EQ they can be as accurate as you like.
Since then I've owned pretty much every OB speaker, from Maggies to Apogees to Orions and many inbetween.
I've flirted with box speakers, but always come back to OB.
The various OBs I've owned measure differently, but they all share a similar 'liveness'.
I've been able to manipulate my DIY open baffles into having similar measurements as my box speakers (and vice versa) but their essential nature doesn't change.
You need to audition before you buy.
Maggies measure worse than pretty much every panel OB I've tried, and much worse than the Revels of this world.
But if you like the sound that won't matter.
Personally I'd suggest building your own. Easy, and with digital EQ they can be as accurate as you like.
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Speakers are the one component where subjective like or dislike is most important. They all sound different. Get what you like. That said, I never met a Magneplanar I thought sounded very good. Always muffled to me, and not very dynamic. Clarity, low distortion, and dynamics have always been my thing. The last criteria made me sell my original Quads (although I wish I still had them packed away). That said, I never heard the Magneplanar models with the ribbon high end, so I would expect those iterations to generally be better. I haven't heard the latest models, either, so I'm ignorant on that count, too.
Back in the day, the audio salon cult was Maggies and Audio Research tubes. But I was never an Audio Research guy, either. The large area 'wave launch' is a plus, with any flat panel speaker. My guess is that room placement (backwave) might be problematic. With my erstwhile Acoustats, you had to pretty much have them four feet out from any walls for them to begin to sound coherent. But even those had a 'plastiky' sort of sound (and sucked power like a Dyson Animal). Dont' Magneplanars require a lot of power? I'd be thinking beefy solid state, and not tubes. Magnepan have been around a long long time, so their appeal cannot be denied. Again, if you like them, don't worry about it.
Back in the day, the audio salon cult was Maggies and Audio Research tubes. But I was never an Audio Research guy, either. The large area 'wave launch' is a plus, with any flat panel speaker. My guess is that room placement (backwave) might be problematic. With my erstwhile Acoustats, you had to pretty much have them four feet out from any walls for them to begin to sound coherent. But even those had a 'plastiky' sort of sound (and sucked power like a Dyson Animal). Dont' Magneplanars require a lot of power? I'd be thinking beefy solid state, and not tubes. Magnepan have been around a long long time, so their appeal cannot be denied. Again, if you like them, don't worry about it.
curious, how does the linkwitz stack up? i assume you are Dave from the oplug forums.
D
Deleted member 2944
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Different flavors. But if forced to get rid of all but one set of my many speakers, the Linkwitz LX521 would be the one I'd keep.
Dave.
Old thread.... I just puchased some .7's. I know that they are not accurate, but I have to say they just sound really good. Maybe because the sound comes from such a long and wide area instead of a point source? They seem very articulate and almost ethereal on some music. Everyone faults them saying the bass is not that great, but unless you have a large tower speaker with big drivers you almost always can use a sub. I have it paired with JL E110 and it sounds great. Also the power issue...most of the time at moderate level they barely use 10 watts at the peak, so saying they need 300 watt amplifiers is simply not true. I do have a very powerful amp, but it is not necessary. For $850 used I think it's a great bang for the buck.
CharlieChASR
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Interesting thing about Maggie’s for many people is you are either in the “not my thing camp” or the “can’t live with anything else camp”. The folks that love them, love them.
I’ve had Maggie 1.6s for almost 30 years but didn’t listen to them much recently due to space and neighbor constraints (was living in a condo in Chicago) so was using headphones a lot.
I moved into a house, set the 1.6s up and they rattled. Remember, they were almost 30 years old and had been in sub zero storage for a few years (Chicago winters).
So I went to a store to audition Vandersteens thinking they’d give me some of the spaciousness of the Maggie’s with more bass. I auditioned them and liked them and was thinking to myself that I was probably going to get them when the salesman said “since you had Maggie’s, try the 1.7is”. I ended up buying the 1.7is. For me, it was just no contest.
So go listen to them and see if you get caught up in their sound. If so, you will probably be a convert. If not, well at least you know.
Oh, and I powered both the 1.6s and some MMGs with a SONOS Amp with some success so don’t let the power requirements frighten you. The amp just has to be stable at 4 ohms. Right now, I’m going to power the 1.7s with some D-Sonic mono blocks.
I’ve had Maggie 1.6s for almost 30 years but didn’t listen to them much recently due to space and neighbor constraints (was living in a condo in Chicago) so was using headphones a lot.
I moved into a house, set the 1.6s up and they rattled. Remember, they were almost 30 years old and had been in sub zero storage for a few years (Chicago winters).
So I went to a store to audition Vandersteens thinking they’d give me some of the spaciousness of the Maggie’s with more bass. I auditioned them and liked them and was thinking to myself that I was probably going to get them when the salesman said “since you had Maggie’s, try the 1.7is”. I ended up buying the 1.7is. For me, it was just no contest.
So go listen to them and see if you get caught up in their sound. If so, you will probably be a convert. If not, well at least you know.
Oh, and I powered both the 1.6s and some MMGs with a SONOS Amp with some success so don’t let the power requirements frighten you. The amp just has to be stable at 4 ohms. Right now, I’m going to power the 1.7s with some D-Sonic mono blocks.
This is a really old thread. As a former Magnepan owner, multi-channel was the solution for me. When you put a high-end accurate speaker next to Magnepans they just don't measure up in tonality and (especially) in mid-bass dynamics. Subs can't fix them, they compress massively and audibly even as high as 200-300hz. The 20.7s are much better in this respect, but they're too expensive and huge for what you get IMO. Treble clarity is also an issue because the tweeters have really bad dispersion and are asymmetric. Plus, they do still delaminate, don't let anyone tell you that problem's been fixed. It hasn't. They're probably among the least durable and reliable speakers out there, worse than most actives.
In general, surround upmixing can give you very similar amounts of the spacious "effect" that Magnepans do, and they're both alterations of the original intended stereo sound anyway. No one is mixing anything on Magnepans or to sound anything like that. But the benefit is, you can just turn the surround upmixing off when you don't want it, and indeed it is not good for some types of music, it tends to take the clarity and imaging precision out of multi-tracked studio recordings for example.
Plus there's tons of actual properly recorded multi-channel classical and it sounds leagues better than any stereo recordings.
This can be fixed but it is kind of messie - the glue which keeps the wires on the foil has failed. Unscrew the wooden sides and take off the cover. Use proper glue (ask Magnepan) to put the loose wires back to the foil.
This assumption only applies to older pure ribbon tweeter models. The 0.7, 1.7, LRS are quasi ribbon and has a pretty flat impedance curve at 4 ohms.
I've had the 1.6 and the 0.7. The 0.7 has more apparent mid and upper bass (this is measurable, not imagined). The 1.6 is leaner but digs deeper. The 1.6 also has much more extended treble, verging on bright, whereas the 0.7 was a bit subdued. I used a 100 watt per side tube amp with the 1.6 but ended up preferring a large Parasound solid state amp for the improved treble extension and bass control. Tubes sounded dull and transients blunted with the 0.7 and I liked the Parasound amp better there too.
Both have the same efficiency on paper, but the 0.7 seemed a bit easier to drive.
At the end of the day I prefer the top end snap of the 1.6 but also wish it was a bit less lean.
I did not keep the 0.7, I sold them after a year.
The rivets are for tuning - each panel is tuned to a slightly different bass resonant frequency by "tying down" parts of the flappy panel to avoid booming when used together. This explanation came from Magnepan, FYI.
