Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 questions

[Steve356]

Will try the new firmware on my amp shortly

Just curious, those of you using bookshelf speakers and a sub, are you able to share your settings for high pass/low pass?

I have a pair of Revel Concerta2 M16 bookshelf speakers, and have recently added an SVS 3000 Micro subwoofer.

Initially I had the crossovers for both set at 80Hz (mains 4th order LR high pass @ 80Hz, and the sub 4th order LR low pass, also at 80Hz), and ran RoomPerfect). With this crossover I ended up with the subwoofer gain set quite low, to avoid boominess or muddy sounding bass. Bass output did seem pretty hefty all the same however.

I since read a few articles and forum posts saying that most beginners set the subwoofer crossover too high (80Hz being set as an example of this!), and the gain to low, and the low pass filter crossover should actually be much lower. I've seen a rule mentioned of it being 0.7 of the lowest frequency your main speakers can do (at -3dB). There is a Darko audio podcast where this is also suggested for ported speakers, and 0.6 for sealed speaekers.

In my case, Revel claim the following low frequency performance for my main speakers...

Low Frequency Extension	55Hz, 50Hz, 45Hz (-3 dB, -6 dB, -10 dB)

I've since tried the following settings, before running RoomPerfect again:

Mains high passed @ 55Hz, level 0dB
Subwoofer low passed @ 55Hz, level -3dB (with the -3dB taking it to the 0.7 point? Or should I be using 0.7 of 55Hz...38.5Hz seems very low to me?)

This now means I can turn the gain on the sub a lot more and it seems like the sub is doing a bit more than before, but I'm still not sure its quite right, and the bass is maybe a little less impressive overall......I find myself baffled by the theory and the possibilities which seem quite endless, although also impressed by the abilities of this little amplifier!

What are you folk with a sub and bookshelf speakers running? What would you recommend for my speakers and sub?

Many thanks,
Will

Are you definitely measuring to the speakers and sub per Lyngdorf's recommendations, i.e. from MLP to speaker tweeters, from MLP to the wall or corner behind the sub? Also, are you adding in the delay for your sub's DSP, e.g. typically 5-6ms for a SVS sub? This all being in place before running a RP calibration?

 

[WolvesWill]

Thanks for the comments folks.

i have input the speaker measurements/distances and measured correctly as per the instructions.

I hadn't set any delay for the subwoofer, I'm using the LFE input and letting the Lyngdorf do all the DSP, I'd have hoped this would bypass any DSP going on inside the sub?

As configurable as the sub is, all I really want is to use the adjustable gain, the rest of the features are things I'd imagine roomperfect will do better, assuming it's set up correctly.

I reset it with 70Hz crossover frequencies (speakers high passed at 70, sub low passed to the same), rather than 55Hz, to my ears it sounds better. Still not sure on the sweet spot though or the best 'technical' setup given the performance of my main speakers.

 

[unexperienced]

Lyngdorf uses TI Equibit technology which converts PCM directly to PWM. No traditional DAC involved.

Let me doubt it. Considering my experience with Class D as such and its variations and varieties in various kinds of execution from microchips with digital input and direct digital such as in NAD something tells me that this Lyngdof's technology PCM to PWM Equibit is nothing but another trick.

 

[spacebar]

Did @amirm review that part when he tested a lyngdorf amp? I don’t remember if he did mention anything about a dac or not.

If any doubt, we could just send an email to lyngdorf.

 

[unexperienced]

There is a DAC in Lyngdorf anyway. Since it has configurable analog RCA outputs to which you can connect a subwoofer or stereo power amplifier to organize a full-fledged biamping with separation by gain bands. I just wanted to say that the PCM to PWM conversion technology is not new, it is used and has been used before in any home cinema receiver in the form of modulator chips, in all which use class D output stages. It is possible that Lyngdorf uses something similar in their Equibity, but given the architecture of these modulators, I can say with absolute certainty that there is still a digital-to-analog conversion in them, it's just hidden from the eyes under the plastic of the chips and the manufacturer does not advertise it much.
Simple example is duet of TAS5508 and TAS5612. In Lyngdorf it may be similar modulator and discrete output stage, for example.

 

[spacebar]

Alright. So lyngdorf do a conversion but they don’t write anything about a DAC. Just to make it sound more high tech-ish Anyway, I think they do the job very well, as I like the sound. (Compared to NAD M10).

 

[unexperienced]

Digital audio processing in Lyngdorf is based on the ADSP-21489 chip. This is a very powerful fourth-generation Shark family floating-point chip. We can say that at the moment there is no better and more powerful DSP chip yet. This chip is much more powerful than the ADAU family. This chip has both PWM outputs and 8 serial ports with ASRC. It is likely that he is the modulator for the amplifier. And from it, a signal is taken to the DAC that serves these same outputs of the analog signal. When I opened my Lyngdorf and looked inside, i see that it have this chip on main board. I haven't thoroughly figured it out yet. But I will definitely do it soon. Since this chip can work under the control of the Sigma Studio program, and this is just an incredible tool for creating any custom filters.

 

[unexperienced]

I also want to add a little to the previous post. Given myself own experience with ADAU and SHARK, the programmable capabilities of the chips are limited only by the imagination of the software engineer. In other words, the capabilities of the chips are so voluminous and wide from a technical point of view. Which can only be limited by the tastelessness of the engineer from the point of view of his own perception of music. For example, these chips can work with Chebyshev filters, but they are not available in the stock version of the software. They have steeper declines, which in some cases is more preferable. I.e. the possibilities are minimized, although the chips themselves are capable of much more. That's what I meant. And the absence of a MQA decoder is actually "engineering laziness" in the software. Or as an option, it will appear soon as it appeared in TDAI 3400 only after three years later its publication. And this is such a marketing ploy of the company to maintain the relevance of the device and its non-obsolescence for a fairly long period due to constant updating and adding new features to the software.

 

[spacebar]

Interesting… but I have to admit that I don’t understand so much. But I enjoy learning new stuff. So the chips are future proof in a way, and if new tech is coming out it should be capable and compatible? Or are they just for voicing etc.

Makes me wonder if the speakers and subs are good too. I’m considering wall mounted speakers with a sub.

 

[unexperienced]

Difficulties of choice...

NAD M10 or Lyngdorf TDAI 1120?

I am planning to buy one of these two. Does anyone have any real world experiences of either? The Lyngdorf is probably too new for many to be out there, but worth checking. Will be replacing an XS2/FlatCap + Chord 2Qute + Allo/Pi streamer to reduce box count. I liked the Naim Atom...

pinkfishmedia.net

 

[unexperienced]

Interesting… but I have to admit that I don’t understand so much. But I enjoy learning new stuff. So the chips are future proof in a way, and if new tech is coming out it should be capable and compatible? Or are they just for voicing etc.

Makes me wonder if the speakers and subs are good too. I’m considering wall mounted speakers with a sub.

It's okay that you don't understand something. Your choice is probably the most successful. Since it is Lyngdorf with its internal architecture and it is only he who can close all the issues in the construction of systems 2.2

It is not known for certain which dog ran between Lyngdorff and NAD, but one thing is for sure, with his departure from the company, NAD suspended further steps in the production of full-fledged devices for 2.2 systems. and focused on the production of hybrids in the BluOS->DAC->Class D amplifier concept. Lyngdorf, on the other hand, remains true to his traditions of the concept of chanel-by-chanel (as in professional sector) reinforcement.

 

[spacebar]

Difficulties of choice...

NAD M10 or Lyngdorf TDAI 1120?

I am planning to buy one of these two. Does anyone have any real world experiences of either? The Lyngdorf is probably too new for many to be out there, but worth checking. Will be replacing an XS2/FlatCap + Chord 2Qute + Allo/Pi streamer to reduce box count. I liked the Naim Atom...

pinkfishmedia.net

Well that’s easy… Lyngdorf

I believe NAD released the new NAD C700 just to compete with TDAI-1120.

 

[Sophisto]

Hi!

I'm very new to this and only have some basic questions that I'd be happy if you could answer:
1. I have a pair of BW 683. Would the TDAI 1120 be enough for them?
2. In terms of sound quality what do you reckon is better: the TDAI 1120 vs NAD C700?

Thanks!

 

[spacebar]

Hi!

I'm very new to this and only have some basic questions that I'd be happy if you could answer:
1. I have a pair of BW 683. Would the TDAI 1120 be enough for them?
2. In terms of sound quality what do you reckon is better: the TDAI 1120 vs NAD C700?

Thanks!

Hello.

2. I don’t have any experience with NAD C700, but I do with NAD M10. I recommend TDAI-1120 over the M10.

 

[Sophisto]

Hello.

2. I don’t have any experience with NAD C700, but I do with NAD M10. I recommend TDAI-1120 over the M10.

Thanks. And do you think the TDAI-1120 is enough for my BW 683?

 

[spacebar]

Thanks. And do you think the TDAI-1120 is enough for my BW 683?

Sorry, but I’m not familiar with b&w. If I remembered correctly b&w is very power hungry. But I’ll leave that answer to someone else.

 

[unexperienced]

Well that’s easy… Lyngdorf

I believe NAD released the new NAD C700 just to compete with TDAI-1120.

Yes, most likely to close the gap in the line of their devices without leaving this niche to competitors.

 

[unexperienced]

Hi!

I'm very new to this and only have some basic questions that I'd be happy if you could answer:
1. I have a pair of BW 683. Would the TDAI 1120 be enough for them?
2. In terms of sound quality what do you reckon is better: the TDAI 1120 vs NAD C700?

Thanks!

Of course it will work, but as for me, it will be too big for 1120. I may be wrong, but does this acoustics also involve bi-amping? I would definitely do so. 1120 on the treble and another power amplifier on the woofer, preferably something in the style of NCore 200 watts per channel, that would be a sound....

 

[spacebar]

I just remembered I have a NCore 2x75W 8ohm. Maybe try bi-amp just for fun.

 

[Marcin]

Hi,
I'm completely new to Lyngdorf equipment. I thought of changing my amp to something with room correction and actually Lyngdorf looks best on paper for my speakers, which are KEF R3.

Do you think TDAI-1120 would be sufficient to drive the R3's or maybe TDAI-2170 would be a better choice? I have a standalone streamer so I don't need all-in-one solution, unless TDAI-1120 sounds exactly the same as TDAI-2170, then I sell both amp and streamer and save some pennies

TDAI-3400 is not in my budget.