Loudspeaker cable test

[fpitas]

I guess there's always the hope that speaker wire will reveal something new after all these years.....

Yeah, another squat-and-go thread where we are called upon to prove nonsense.

 

[Geert]

At 7:40 in the video Jaap compares the response of 2 cables outside their pass band (@25kHz) to conclude there's a 0,6dB difference between the cables. Making a comparison outside pass bands is ridiculous. Luckily the graph only goes to 25kHz or he probably would have reported like a 20dB difference at 100kHz.

And he continues: "No you don't hear it (25kHz) but the harmonics you do". Really? What harmonics can he hear, the 2nd at 50kHz, the 3th at 75kHz... Even his cat would have difficulties hearing that. Not to mention there's almost no musical content in those frequency ranges (in case he meant IHD).

 

[antcollinet]

Great,unfortunately I don't use any, care to show your results using real world data?

I've shown a calculation above using typical real world data showing how 10ft of 18 awg wire can cause a 0.3dB FR variation.

I could show you a similar calculation demonstrating how if you replaced that 18awg wire with 12 awg, that variation would drop to 0.07dB

That is well below the level of audibility. The calculations are relatively straightforward. If you want more, I suggest you do them yourself.

 

[antcollinet]

At 7:40 in the video Jaap compares the response of 2 cables outside their pass band (@25kHz) to conclude there's a 0,6dB difference between the cables. Making a comparison outside pass bands is ridiculous. Luckily the graph only goes to 25kHz or he probably would have reported like a 20dB difference at 100kHz.

And he continues: "No you don't hear it (25kHz) but the harmonics you do". Really? What harmonics can he hear, the 2nd at 50kHz, the 3th at 75kHz... Even his cat would have difficulties hearing that. Not to mention there's almost no musical content in those frequency ranges (in case he meant IHD).

View attachment 311946

Yep - his test method is suspect, and his conclusions are faulty.

Nothing new to see here.

 

[fpitas]

What harmonics can he hear, the 2nd at 50kHz, the 3th at 75kHz...

Let's not make assumptions about his hearing. We haven't absolutely proven he can't hear those

I suggest you do them yourself.

Yeah. We have to say that a lot around here.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Let's not make assumptions about his hearing. We haven't absolutely proven he can't hear those

Yeah. We have to say that a lot around here.

There have been people blind tested that can sense 25 khz as long as the sound level is 105 db SPL or higher, no other tones lower in frequency, and they are 28 years old or younger. Not sure we have any music that fulfills those criteria. Maybe the Greatest 25 khz hits from the 25 khz band?

 

[fpitas]

There have been people blind tested that can sense 25 khz as long as the sound level is 105 db SPL or higher, no other tones lower in frequency, and they are 28 years old or younger. Not sure we have any music that fulfills those criteria. Maybe the Greatest 25 khz hits from the 25 khz band?

Well, even allowing that he can hear 25kHz, he talked about the harmonics. I have a friend that could hear 23kHz when he was 20.

 

[Geert]

There have been people blind tested that can sense 25 khz as long as the sound level is 105 db SPL or higher

They might have lost that capability thanks to that 105 dB test

 

[TonyJZX]

ironically i justed fished out a roll of 50yd 50m 12 awg from my garage - its cheap enough if you look around, i think this was well under $50 a roll so a buck a meter

replacing some 16awg and there's no difference, i also used fancy plugs

if i had some amazing high powered 300w class a/b amp that weighs 100lb and some speakers like those 65lb JBL 590s... like would you use less than 12 awg?

to my lizard brain i wouldnt... at $1 a meter here you may as well go all out and get the thickest wire

but a more modest system like bookshelfs and a small integrated? maybe dont bother and just keep the 16 awg?

 

[fpitas]

The only reason I can see to use small gauge is if you just can't tolerate the bend radius or bulk of the bigger wire. The cost difference is very small.

 

[Count Arthur]

The only reason I can see to use small gauge is if you just can't tolerate the bend radius or bulk of the bigger wire. The cost difference is very small.

However, it mounts up over longer runs, which is, ironically, where it's most needed.

 

[TonyJZX]

i think for most common lengths (ie. up to say 5 meters for L/R) you can just buy ready made 12awg for not much

i would think running 7.2 channels or more of 12 awg is really kind of awful and some people might even run ribbon and whatever to those surrounds

it depends on where you source your copper... i found any HT, hifi or even common electrical supply house, even trade is kind of expensive... they know audiophiles got the moolah

i ended up getting the stuff from DJ supply places

OR arent you guys just using 110/240v reeled zip cord? its the same she-it isnt it

 

[fpitas]

i think for most common lengths (ie. up to say 5 meters for L/R) you can just buy reading made 12awg for not much

i would think running 7.2 channels or more of 12 awg is really kind of awful and some people might even run ribbon and whatever to those surrounds

it depends on where you source your copper... i found any HT, hifi or even common electrical supply house, even trade is kind of expensive... they know audiophiles got the moolah

i ended up getting the stuff from DJ supply places

OR arent you guys just using 110/240v reeled zip cord? its the same she-it isnt it

I use MonoPrice twisted pair, which is reasonable. But I've seen people get great deals on extension cords and cut them up. Amazon has lots of inexpensive wire too, although some is CCA.

 

[Chrispy]

i think for most common lengths (ie. up to say 5 meters for L/R) you can just buy ready made 12awg for not much

i would think running 7.2 channels or more of 12 awg is really kind of awful and some people might even run ribbon and whatever to those surrounds

it depends on where you source your copper... i found any HT, hifi or even common electrical supply house, even trade is kind of expensive... they know audiophiles got the moolah

i ended up getting the stuff from DJ supply places

OR arent you guys just using 110/240v reeled zip cord? its the same she-it isnt it

I have never bought a pre-made speaker cable. Much rather just use good stock bought in bulk and cut to length and terminate as needed (or not). Routing long runs of cable in rooms can be fun, tho.

 

[mmuetst]

I am aware that the test was not conducted properly by Alpha Audio, but all ASR members comment on the video, but not on my question whether someone can perform a test with different speakers, one of which is amplifier friendly and the other not.
Maybe no one can do this test because they don't have the resources? In any case, unfortunately I cannot do the test myself. The video actually only made me curious as to whether this actually has an impact. Also because the video indicates that a fixed load had no influence. If a forum member here is interested in this test, I would like to see it appear on the forum

 

[antcollinet]

I am aware that the test was not conducted properly by Alpha Audio, but all ASR members comment on the video, but not on my question whether someone can perform a test with different speakers, one of which is amplifier friendly and the other not.
Maybe no one can do this test because they don't have the resources? In any case, unfortunately I cannot do the test myself. The video actually only made me curious as to whether this actually has an impact. Also because the video indicates that a fixed load had no influence. If a forum member here is interested in this test, I would like to see it appear on the forum

There is really no need to perform the test.

If the speaker characteristic is known, and the cable impedance (LCR)** is known then the FR on the speaker terminals can be calculated, and will have almost exact alignment with any test.

** In fact just knowing the resistance is probably enough to give a calculation very close to any test result.

 

[TonyJZX]

yeah at this point any further testing is not necessary

i think Amir in one of his videos sideways said that for just about every domestic use 14-16 even 18 isnt a bad choice. if it works, leave it

you're not getting anything going from 18 to 12

but if the price is nothing (ie. $1 a meter or 3 foot) then go 12 if your bananas and amp can take it

 

[CapMan]

This just arrived from Thomann today - 10m of Sommer Meridian 260 10awg OFC cable.

€6 a meter so pretty exotic and expensive !

It’s well made, easy to strip, very flexible jacket and matches my grey carpet.

All I need .

 

[mmuetst]

There is really no need to perform the test.

If the speaker characteristic is known, and the cable impedance (LCR)** is known then the FR on the speaker terminals can be calculated, and will have almost exact alignment with any test.

** In fact just knowing the resistance is probably enough to give a calculation very close to any test result.

Many cable tests posted on this forum would therefore be in vain. I'm just asking if anyone wants to implement it. No is also an answer.

 

[fpitas]

No is also an answer.

No offense, but we constantly get people wanting someone here to test their pet theories. Perhaps that explains our bristly attitude.