Loudness compression, loudness wars.. What exactly it is and why is it happening?

[RichB]

I have posted it before, but here is Adele's Skytfall purchased from HDTracks:

Apparently, HD Audio with massive clipping and compression sells. Good mastering need not apply.
If HD Audio included dynamic range metrics, it might be worth it.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

I will point out one advantage of compression, which is that no part of the music gets lost in the mix. At least my experience is that all the tracks are boosted up to the same level so that you hear the drums, bass, guitars, vocals, etc. equally.

This is probably the reason that most critics have raved over remasters. You hear parts of the music that not noticed before. It's roughly equivalent to the speakers that boost the treble to give recordings more 'air'. The downside is similar which is that it causes listener fatigue. You turn the volume down and now it's too soft. At least with boosted treble you can maybe use your tone controls.

I do not listen to raving critics

There is a purpose from compression but honestly, I have CDs from the late 80's and early 90's that blow away contemporary remixes. It's tragic.

- Rich

 

[MetalDaze]

Here is another great video explaining compression, why it's actually quite necessary in the master process (usually) and how it can be used to an advantage. But we all know its been over done to a disadvantage.

@RichB is right. I seek out older original CD's for cheap at my local music stores when I can And when I get them home and compare not only the sound but the waveform of the original to a remaster.. it is just that. Sad. All that computational and engineering capacity - ignored for a brick wall.

It's not always like this, but more often than I would like to see.

 

[MetalDaze]

I hope this hasn't been posted already, but for anyone wanting an explanation and summary of this thread without reading 14 pages - this comes from the man himself, with great explanation. The video is recent from 2019

Cheers!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Do you mean for current releases or main stream top 40 music?

Most of these individuals master both vinyl and digital media and are current in the industry I think. Cutting the wax is separate, and sometimes done by someone other than the mastering engineer. But Bob Ludwig I think is still active in his own studio. Ryan K Smith is a current mastering engineer at Sterling Sound. Kevin Gray is at QRP? Miles at Abbey Road. Steve Hoffman still does releases for AP on wax & SACD if I'm not mistaken. They do seem to cater to a more boutique audience geared towards remasters, high res releases and audiophiles. But I think they are available to work with most artists if said artist has a good sense of not only just good music, but reproduction in both regular consumer as well as a hifi setting.

Okay, but nearly all the guys you name were around when I was young. I'm not young anymore. Maybe Smith and Gray are more recent. It does takes some time to recognize a body of work.

What I'd like to know is who is up and coming, younger who will be around awhile who has the same sensibilities?

 

[MetalDaze]

Ooh okay. Gotcha!

You know that's a good question. I'm guessing I'm behind yourself in years by maybe a decade or two? So I sort of have the same question. It would be nice to see the mindset spread once again to the main stream and give us back our fidelity. We can't change the music being made, but we can at least make sure it's cared for in the process of it's creation.

 

[MRC01]

I have posted it before, but here is Adele's Skytfall purchased from HDTracks:
View attachment 95316

That is downright shameful. And there are even worse examples.
If you bought it from HDTracks, let support know and they'll refund your purchase. It's not their fault, they're just a reseller. But if enough customers do this, they can get the word back to the studios.

 

[Sal1950]

PS: Steven Wilson. He's remixed several old rock albums and every one sounds fantastic, much better than the originals.

Steven's a God in the multich world. I have most everything he's remixed plus all his original work with 2 or 3 different bands.
Not to forget Alan Parsons, another who's done remixing for others and original work with a few bands.
James Guthrie , producer and engineer for most all Pink Floyd albums, David Gilmour, and Roger Waters solo stuff, numerous other bands.
Andy Jackson, another Pink Floyd engineer. Currently involve in a minor war between Gilmour and Waters over who will remix Animals and maybe some others for 5.1 or Atmos BluRays.

 

[RichB]

That is downright shameful. And there are even worse examples.
If you bought it from HDTracks, let support know and they'll refund your purchase. It's not their fault, they're just a reseller. But if enough customers do this, they can get the word back to the studios.

It was a while ago so not a big deal.
HDTracks could analyze tracks and provide standards and static analysis like the DR rating.
It would not take long for producers to catch on that buyers want improvements.

Very often remasters have reduced dynamic range.

- Rich

 

[Sal1950]

HDTracks could analyze tracks and provide standards and static analysis like the DR rating.

Yea they could, but they won't. It would mean loosing sales

 

[RichB]

Yea they could, but they won't. It would mean loosing sales

For a while, then things would get better.
HD Audio does not quality metrics, just quantity.

- Rich

 

[Sal1950]

I probably put this up already but check out the DR of the CD from 1982 or 1986.
Then check out the high priced spread from HDTracks in glorious living color 24/96 highres file.
Or Qobuz High Def streaming?
What an awesome improvement we made in 30+++ years.

 

[RichB]

I probably put this up already but check out the DR of the CD from 1982 or 1986.
Then check out the high priced spread from HDTracks in glorious living color 24/96 highres file.
Or Qobuz High Def streaming?
What an awesome improvement we made in 30+++ years.
View attachment 95392

It is sad, and MQA arrived to further muddy the water with snake oil.
These people understand the true issues with recording quality.
The "critics" and luminaries are mostly silent.
Start putting DR ratings on sites and it would end.

- Rich

 

[MRC01]

We need professional audio reviewers who commonly review recordings and have the guts to say the emperor has no clothes. Talk about how bad some of these new releases sound and compare them with the older ones. Nobody will listen to a bunch of engineer nerds. But people will listen to well known reviewers.

A year or so ago I asked HDTracks about this when I got a refund for one of these squashed recordings that I bought. Could they offer any simple analysis results like DR14 ratings on their recordings? They said they were releasing some new data about recordings but DR14 wasn't one of them. Too bad.

 

[eliash]

These are all great names you guys are listing, but who from today would make the list? Anyone?

Concerning Jazz recordings, there are certainly the guys to be named, who are contracted by ECM (e.g. from France, Norway or Switzerland and NY of course), since Manfred Eicher has an eye (or better an ear) on it, making sure that the final mastering quality is flawless from a producers perspective...which could make it easier for the engineers...as long as they meet ECM's standards...I am reading always the same names though...

 

[krabapple]

PS: Steven Wilson. He's remixed several old rock albums and every one sounds fantastic, much better than the originals.

I beg to differ.

 

[MRC01]

Which ones do you think are worse than the originals?

 

[Sal1950]

PS: Steven Wilson. He's remixed several old rock albums and every one sounds fantastic, much better than the originals.

I beg to differ.

Me too.
They sound so much better there's no comparison.
Not to mention the 5.1 mixes that are so far beyond the stereo mixes I can't find the words for them. (stereo is so 1960s)
And Atmos/Auro immersive mixes just around the corner.

 

[krabapple]

I can find words. One is 'disappointing'.

He's done some good Yes work -- The Yes Album sounds great -- but the gushing over Wilson's remixes is excessive. Fragile is OK but in some cases I there prefer the older 5.1 mix. His 'America' remix is terrible (as is the older remix). His 'Close to Edge' is a mess of over-loud backing vocals and under-powered climaxes. His Relayer is a huge letdown. I can't fathom how anyone who knows and loves the song 'To Be Over' can enthuse over the botch he made of it. And as for Tales, my Japanese HDCD, decoded and upmixed with DPLII, sounds better than Wilson's remix.

The thing is, Eddy Offord was pretty much a genius as the mixing board. His choices were usually spot-on. Wilson's, not so much.

The other thing is, I find the gushing over SW's Yes work to often be inversely proportional to how well/long the gusher knows/loves the albums.

 

[MRC01]

Interesting. I found the original Yes albums to have a midrangy, excessively bright sound as to make them nearly un-listenable. It was great music that always deserved a better recording than it got, at least on the original releases. Wilson's remixes have a more even, well balanced frequency range. In comparison, much warmer sounding and more dynamic. Yet in absolute terms, not really "warm" just neutral where the originals were much too bright. With Wilson's remixes, I can finally enjoy this fine music.

I can only compare the original releases with Wilson's. I haven't heard other remasters or remixes.