Louder is better.

[formdissolve]

My brother was working at Best Buy when the Red Hot Chili Peppers album Californiacation came out in 1999. It's one of the best examples of the loudness war era with terrible dynamic range, clipping in many places, etc. It was so bad that some customers were returning the CD saying it was defective..

Another example was Metallica's Death Magnetic. It was so bad that people were bootlegging tracks from a video game (Guitar Hero).

More examples here. There's a point where loud is too loud..

 

[Blumlein 88]

For practical purposes I find K-level guidelines by Bob Katz pretty excellent as a guide to compress things enough it helps in any reasonable environment without being too much. These preceded the LUFS system.

Level Practices (Part 2) - Digido.com

Digital Domain - we ensure musicians, independent artists and record labels get the best sound possible. Bob Katz provides the best in mastering and mixing.

www.digido.com

Which one is correct? 85 dB SPL or 83 dB SPL from Bob Katz Level Practices

你好， 我找到了 Bob Katz Level Practices 的两个版本。一个是 83 dB SPL，另一个是 85 dB SPL。 哪个是正确的？ 谢谢。 https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/ https://www.aes.org/technical/documentDownloads.cfm?docID=65...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[dasdoing]

For practical purposes I find K-level guidelines by Bob Katz pretty excellent as a guide to compress things enough it helps in any reasonable environment without being too much. These preceded the LUFS system.

Level Practices (Part 2) - Digido.com

Digital Domain - we ensure musicians, independent artists and record labels get the best sound possible. Bob Katz provides the best in mastering and mixing.

www.digido.com

Which one is correct? 85 dB SPL or 83 dB SPL from Bob Katz Level Practices

你好， 我找到了 Bob Katz Level Practices 的两个版本。一个是 83 dB SPL，另一个是 85 dB SPL。 哪个是正确的？ 谢谢。 https://www.digido.com/portfolio-item/level-practices-part-2/ https://www.aes.org/technical/documentDownloads.cfm?docID=65...

www.audiosciencereview.com

problem is it wont bring you anywhere near competitive loudness levels

Mastering Trends For 2023

Mastering The Mix has done an in-depth technical analysis of the 25 most streamed songs on Spotify in 2022. With this data, we can understand what’s been successful in the past year, and we can use that information to influence our production decisions.

www.masteringthemix.com

Katz can pull it off, because he is a "specialist"

 

[goat76]

problem is it wont bring you anywhere near competitive loudness levels

View attachment 378581

Mastering Trends For 2023

Mastering The Mix has done an in-depth technical analysis of the 25 most streamed songs on Spotify in 2022. With this data, we can understand what’s been successful in the past year, and we can use that information to influence our production decisions.

www.masteringthemix.com

Katz can pull it off, because he is a "specialist"

I don't think many of us who’s interested in high sound quality need to care that much about the top 25 charts of streamed music. Those top positions are unreachable for most and likely manipulated/catered in one way or another for those songs to end up there, it had probably not that much to do with the loudness level.

 

[dasdoing]

I don't think many of us who’s interested in high sound quality need to care that much about the top 25 charts of streamed music. Those top positions are unreachable for most and likely manipulated/catered in one way or another for those songs to end up there, it had probably not that much to do with the loudness level.

that's the stuff you are competing with when you make music though.
unless you make "audiophile music" (read: non-commercial) you better be as loud as possible

 

[goat76]

that's the stuff you are competing with when you make music though.
unless you make "audiophile music" (read: non-commercial) you better be as loud as possible

Most music is the “non-commercial” type of music these days, well, unless you aim for the same type of music that are on repeat on the commercial radio stations. Nothing else than that gets a real chance of being played other than on non-prime hours or on small alternative radio stations, and at those hours or at those radio stations you don’t have to be much louder than the other tracks.

There is likely more politics than music that put you in the top 25 charts, for most it's just stupid to destroy all the dynamics in the music just for the minimal chance of being a hit song on the radio.

 

[dasdoing]

Most music is the “non-commercial” type of music these days, well, unless you aim for the same type of music that are on repeat on the commercial radio stations. Nothing else than that gets a real chance of being played other than on non-prime hours or on small alternative radio stations, and at those hours or at those radio stations you don’t have to be much louder than the other tracks.

There is likely more politics than music that put you in the top 25 charts, for most it's just stupid to destroy all the dynamics in the music just for the minimal chance of being a hit song on the radio.

most people want to sound like the stuff that plays on the radio. And if they don't they hardly will be taken seriously. Also it's not really about dynamics....dynamics in pop music? rock music? it's about density

 

[Audiofire]

most people want to sound like the stuff that plays on the radio.

Well, another reason why most people are a waste of one's time
LOL

 

[MRC01]

... i have been making and mixing my music lately and one thing I notice is that louder sounds better (up to a point, but a much higher point than I would have thought) and that DR doesn’t track well with how good it sounds.

... Usually some compression is liked better. However, one can go stepwise to a point too far. I think that is endemic in recordings today. But that is according to my opinion. So no louder is not better.

I agree it's a personal preference and likely also based on one's musical experience. To me, louder/compressed virtually always sounds worse. Dynamically compressed recordings sound artificial and fatiguing to me. It not only squashes the impact, but it also alters the timbres of instruments making them sound like a caricature of themselves. I really do not like it and never have.

Since I've said it's a personal preference it may help to give my perspective. I've been an amateur musician my entire life, play music almost daily, listen to mostly acoustic music. In audio I prefer a realistic lifelike portrayal, not an artificial exaggerated caricature of the sound. But I also listen to jazz and rock and don't like compression with that either. To me it just sounds false and gimmicky. Dynamic compression is like a teenager who gets his first equalizer and slams the knobs into a giant "V" to feel the booming bass and the tizzy highs. But eventually he grows up and stops doing that because he wants to hear what the music actually sounds like.

 

[IPunchCholla]

I agree it's a personal preference and likely also based on one's musical experience. To me, louder/compressed virtually always sounds worse. Dynamically compressed recordings sound artificial and fatiguing to me. It not only squashes the impact, but it also alters the timbres of instruments making them sound like a caricature of themselves. I really do not like it and never have.

Since I've said it's a personal preference it may help to give my perspective. I've been an amateur musician my entire life, play music almost daily, listen to mostly acoustic music. In audio I prefer a realistic lifelike portrayal, not an artificial exaggerated caricature of the sound. But I also listen to jazz and rock and don't like compression with that either. To me it just sounds false and gimmicky. Dynamic compression is like a teenager who gets his first equalizer and slams the knobs into a giant "V" to feel the booming bass and the tizzy highs. But eventually he grows up and stops doing that because he wants to hear what the music actually sounds like.

I can appreciate that perspective. I like acoustic, jazz and blues in particular, live, in a small venue. Saw Kermit Ruffins in a little-ish bar and it was a total blast. One of my favorite memories is seeing Uganda Roberts playing a Bacchanal in New Orleans. Just went for dinner, and hear is this legendary percussionist playing.

The music I make (and listen to the most) is electronic. Grew up in the punk and grunge scene in Seattle in the 90s. There really isn’t a reference to an original instrument there. I mean there is a guitar at one end of the reproduction chain, but how am I going to see if the superfuzz is sounding authentic when it’s in the middle of a chain of 4 other stomp boxes?

What I make now is using virtual synthesizers. Some mimic classic devices and are made by the original companies (like Moog’s Model 15). So the line between instrument and effect gets very, very blurry. Is anything other than a pure sine wave an effect? It gets even weirder when you get to granular synthesis. Or when you take the waves made by an acoustic instrument and have that modeled to another instrument (ie drums “playing” the bass).

I’m often looking to make soundscapes. Walls of articulated noise. I saw The Smashing Pumpkins last summer. There was a few minutes when all 4 guitars were hammering away with the instrument distortions weaving in and out of each other that was one of the most immersive sounds I have ever heard. Sections of my songs often try to create that kind of sensibility. I want things to sound loud, loud, loud, without being over compressed. The new mastering tools in Logic Pro are helping with that, but it is a black box and it would be nice to know the principals behind getting that loud sound while still hitting a LUFS target of -13 or lower.

 

[dasdoing]

remember this topic? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/crest-factor-how-detectable-is-it.47964/

the raw track sounds terrible. some of these kicks are annoying af

 

[MRC01]

I can appreciate that perspective. I like acoustic, jazz and blues in particular, live, in a small venue. Saw Kermit Ruffins in a little-ish bar and it was a total blast. One of my favorite memories is seeing Uganda Roberts playing a Bacchanal in New Orleans. Just went for dinner, and hear is this legendary percussionist playing.
...
The music I make (and listen to the most) is electronic. Grew up in the punk and grunge scene in Seattle in the 90s. There really isn’t a reference to an original instrument there. I mean there is a guitar at one end of the reproduction chain, but how am I going to see if the superfuzz is sounding authentic when it’s in the middle of a chain of 4 other stomp boxes?

What I make now is using virtual synthesizers. Some mimic classic devices and are made by the original companies (like Moog’s Model 15). So the line between instrument and effect gets very, very blurry. Is anything other than a pure sine wave an effect? It gets even weirder when you get to granular synthesis. Or when you take the waves made by an acoustic instrument and have that modeled to another instrument (ie drums “playing” the bass).
...

I agree that whether dynamic compression or other post-processing is appropriate depends on the type of music. In some cases it can be an essential part of the artistic expression, in other cases it is counterproductive and only gets in the way.

 

[dasdoing]

 

[IPunchCholla]

Well, on my iPad I can’t tell a difference.

 

[IPunchCholla]

remember this topic? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/crest-factor-how-detectable-is-it.47964/

the raw track sounds terrible. some of these kicks are annoying af

I do wish the footboard abx extension was available on Mac.