Klipsch RP-600M Speaker Review

[Jim Shaw]

Pennyless says: "As a partial exception, I would say, like another poster above, that this sound is not very good for classic or jazz. I have a pair of Wharfedales for that that I prefer, but they are really brilliant for pop and rock."
....
I have a conviction that subjective speaker reviews are greatly biased by preferred music genre, if not specific tracks heard. I have learned to be wary of reviewers who prefer rock, blues, metal, and electronic music -- because I prefer classical, jazz, chamber, and solo acoustic instruments. If you would 'calibrate' a reviewer, it would first be by preferred music type.

We could postulate that a 'great' speaker would be equally 'great' for all forms of music and sound. I find that to be almost never the case. A few subjective reviewers on YT pay lip service to listening to a bit of my preferred styles of music, but I expect their 'druthers' are hugely skewed by their real pop music preferences. Like it or not, speakers are musical instruments as much as reproducers. There is probably a good reason that we hardly ever see electric guitars, basses, and kick drums in a symphony orchestra. Or, pianos, harps, oboes, or string basses in a metal band.
-Just one man's view

 

[jmillar]

What do you need a study for? It's a naming convention.

Depends on who "named" it. It's a "convention" of one. These rough approximations are useful as "rules of thumb", but lack precision and a scientific community who backs them.

 

[tuga]

Depends on who "named" it. It's a "convention" of one. These rough approximations are useful as "rules of thumb", but lack precision and a scientific community who backs them.

Off with their heads!

 

[richterto]

Anyone know if the RP-500M has this dip in the cross-over?

 

[Mr.XO]

These 3 simple PEQ filters seem to flatten LW almost perfectly and they don't affect LF response at all. Can you plz try them with your simulation?

View attachment 55254

Hi @QMuse,
This is so cool!
How do you figure this out?
Looking for similar #s that can be used in Roon's PEQ for a pair of RP-8000F.
Not sure if the same #s will work as its got the same crossover point at 1750Hz.
Thanks!

 

[Eetu]

Hi @QMuse,
This is so cool!
How do you figure this out?
Looking for similar #s that can be used in Roon's PEQ for a pair of RP-8000F.
Not sure if the same #s will work as its got the same crossover point at 1750Hz.
Thanks!

You can open the measurement files (post #2) in Room EQ Wizard (REW) and create EQ filters there.

Looking at the Audioholics measurements of the RP-8000F it's a lot more neutral on-axis. You don't want to use the same filters (/measurements) as here.

You can try broad filters based on the Audioholics data. Or if you want more accuracy you can always measure them yourself: get a UMIK-1 mic, download REW, move one of your speakers in the middle of the room (as far away from furniture and walls as possible) and measure from ~1m away. Then adjust the IR window in REW so you don't include first reflections in the measurements. Check this guide for more details (parts 1.-3.). Then, based on the gated measurements, you can create EQ filters effectively flattening the freq response.

 

[Mr.XO]

Thanks @QMuse!
I was going by this YT video, and my own sense of something is not right about the mid-range... even before I saw it.
Tech Talk 33: How to Improve the Klipsch RP-8000F - YouTube

But I don't want to open it up and switch to the crossover the guy sells; and so that's were I hit this thread and saw the correction applied made a big / good difference.

I'll try what you've suggested using REW - not so familiar with it, so will need some learning - got to be fun!

Now I do have an avr with audessey in another room that I could bring into the one with the 8000s and take some reading and try to make some PEQ adjustments using what it detects, if that makes sense...?

Thanks for helping!

 

[Eetu]

Thanks @QMuse!
I was going by this YT video, and my own sense of something is not right about the mid-range... even before I saw it.

Oh my bad, I think you're right. The Audioholics review was the first I saw, but now I found Hifitest.de measurements that show a huge ~1800Hz dip as well.

I haven't used Audyssey but yes you could try if in-room measurements show the dip and even try taking a nearfield measurement. Then apply the PEQ in Roon. Optimally you would like to re-measure after EQ to confirm the results but not sure if it's possible with Audyssey..

 

[Mr.XO]

Thanks @Eetu !

Actually I started noticing issues with some female vocals - some that I know pretty well how they should sound. Otherwise, its real bang for the buck speakers.

I did a quick try with audyssey on the avr and could see the dip; a simple 1 band PEQ fix in Roon based on it is already quite good.
Procedural EQ:
L: F=1625Hz | G=5.0db | Q=3.0
R: F=1725Hz | G=5.5db | Q=2.5

With this settings it sounded more natural in terms of tone than at the exact crossover of 1750Hz or 1800Hz on both L & R - must be the room adding to it all as well. There's some more PEQ bands I could add to address some other room mode issues as well.

True - I'll have to figure out a way to remeasure with the adjustments, but my ears are already nodding yes! Will have to take a break and do some critical listening couple days later to see if they still agree...

Also, Thanks for the HiFitest.de link... it's a new site for me.

 

[Nwickliff]

It should be said though that 10 volt with this loudspeaker (thanks to its relatively high sensitivity) are approximately already 100 dB which is quite loud for a compact loudspeaker, that's why distortion measurements imho should not be done at fixed voltages but fixed average SPL levels like also most other tests do.

So I'm curious how it would measure distortion wise at 96db as he has started testing since

 

[jmillar]

Definitely not scientifically. Just a couple of years of experience in the home studio playing with eq and using reference tracks for the mastering. Above 10k especially form 11/12k it sounds just like air and fizzy noises to my ears and it is very unlikely I could distinguish any pitch. Most of the productions out there are rolled off from 10k anyway and have little energy in that area out of the studio but some modern electronic music on some occasions. The same amount of energy in the the 10-20k area will sound bad but is defo not as hurtful to my ears as excess of energy in the 5-10k area. It's just my experience. Please do more audio interface and studio monitors

It definitely has perceivable "pitch", and it will depend on the listener. Use a frequency sweeper and you'll be surprised up to how high you can perceive pitch changes. They are way above most music, of course, and you can't reproduce them vocally. But cymbals, "hats" and such probably produce a bit of it. People call it "air" because it is quite weakly heard, only occasionally, and not as part of any "tune" or melodic pattern. But they do add sparkle and they do have pitch.

 

[Nwickliff]

I trust this speaker to sound very decent as your simple EQ significantly improved it's response and, as you noted, DI curves are smooth.

Reagrding that raise in distortion in range of 600-800, it correlates with persistent episode in same range on CSD graph, so maybe resonance?

EDIT: And there it is..

View attachment 55092

Is this something that the No Rez from The GR Research upgrade could have addressed? Is it something that I could measure using REW and Umik in my own room?

 

[Shives]

Is this something that the No Rez from The GR Research upgrade could have addressed? Is it something that I could measure using REW and Umik in my own room?

I’m not supporting anyone nor do I work for anyone. I can say, I was tricked into buying the RP-600m by trusting my buddy sales man, and not ears. Should have known better.
After a couple weeks and not wanting to send them back and create an open box situation for my friend (should have) I decided to pick up some of the mentioned supplies above.
I did upgrade the crossovers. And add the no res.
I think the sound is different.

If someone wants to aid in my measuring of said speaker, I’ll be happy to! I would be happy to post a screen shot of the results. Sadly I did not take a first measurement, but seeing the above ones, it looks like every other basic out of the box 600m speaker.

To me I guess it made sense after hearing. I had to try something.

Also, if anyone owns these in the western mass area, and wanted to hear them, your welcome to stop by!

 

[spacevector]

I’m not supporting anyone nor do I work for anyone. I can say, I was tricked into buying the RP-600m by trusting my buddy sales man, and not ears. Should have known better.
After a couple weeks and not wanting to send them back and create an open box situation for my friend (should have) I decided to pick up some of the mentioned supplies above.
I did upgrade the crossovers. And add the no res.
I think the sound is different.

If someone wants to aid in my measuring of said speaker, I’ll be happy to! I would be happy to post a screen shot of the results. Sadly I did not take a first measurement, but seeing the above ones, it looks like every other basic out of the box 600m speaker.

To me I guess it made sense after hearing. I had to try something.

Also, if anyone owns these in the western mass area, and wanted to hear them, your welcome to stop by!

Hi, you can use the first post of this guide to make an on-axis response measurement. That will definitely help show what tonal changes the mods have made.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-spinoramas-with-rew-and-vituixcad.21860/

 

[Shives]

Oh.. I do have REW loaded up, UMIK mic, waiting in a new optic cable due to mine being short. But, again I have what is needed.. I can set up everything and get results, but do I have the right settings and placement. Again, if someone wanted to just give me those basic things maybe even in a message. If anyone would really care to see what treating these cabinets and new networks will results in.
I had that horrid dip my DSP could not resolve

Hi, you can use the first post of this guide to make an on-axis response measurement. That will definitely help show what tonal changes the mods have made.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-spinoramas-with-rew-and-vituixcad.21860/

i am happy to help. I’ve been watching more of the REW guides and videos.. I can make measurements, and have, but again am I doing it right is the question. Allow me to review, and I’ll get back to you.

 

[Nwickliff]

Hi, you can use the first post of this guide to make an on-axis response measurement. That will definitely help show what tonal changes the mods have made.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-spinoramas-with-rew-and-vituixcad.21860/

I can show what the tonal changes are to the upgrade in the on axis response here
First is on axis before upgrade in my garage with gated response
second is gated response after upgraded
third is response outside on a ladder

not sure that rise at 10k is accurate

 

[Shives]

I can show what the tonal changes are to the upgrade in the on axis response here
First is on axis before upgrade in my garage with gated response
second is gated response after upgraded
third is response outside on a ladder

not sure that rise at 10k is accurate
View attachment 129235

Oh! I thought you were asking if the parts sold online would make a difference.. being you did not have them. I guess you do have them, and installed? I’m finding a huge difference. But, again I’ll still put up my personal measurements of the modded version of the RP-600m. Hoping my cable will be here shortly, so I can use REW at a longer distance then 4 ft from my AVR. Got a 15” cable yesterday but was defective.
So, again to be clear you have the items installed and the run above is with the upgraded parts.

 

[Nwickliff]

Oh! I thought you were asking if the parts sold online would make a difference.. being you did not have them. I guess you do have them, and installed? I’m finding a huge difference. But, again I’ll still put up my personal measurements of the modded version of the RP-600m. Hoping my cable will be here shortly, so I can use REW at a longer distance then 4 ft from my AVR. Got a 15” cable yesterday but was defective.
So, again to be clear you have the items installed and the run above is with the upgraded parts.

No worries. I was more interested in before and after distortion figures. It seemed as though the distortion showed might have been a resonance in the 500 to 800 Hz region but it’s hard to tell if that was fixed with the upgrade or not. The distortion and compression levels seem very low, otherwise, and directivity is very good. With resonance fixed, crossover fixed and a bit of EQ I may be done searching for a good home theater speaker for a while. The only thing I’m really curious about is wide dispersion versus this narrow dispersion speaker for 2 channel listening.


The top line is before the crossover in the garage and the second line is after the crossover in the same garage from 1m away and the last is outside on a ladder from 1m away with far fewer reflections.

--

 

[Shives]

No worries. I was more interested in before and after distortion figures. It seemed as though the distortion showed might have been a resonance in the 500 to 800 Hz region but it’s hard to tell if that was fixed with the upgrade or not. The distortion and compression levels seem very low, otherwise, and directivity is very good. With resonance fixed, crossover fixed and a bit of EQ I may be done searching for a good home theater speaker for a while. The only thing I’m really curious about is wide dispersion versus this narrow dispersion speaker for 2 channel listening.


The top line is before the crossover in the garage and the second line is after the crossover in the same garage from 1m away and the last is outside on a ladder from 1m away with far fewer reflections.

--

Hello!! So, I’ve had a delay in getting my optical cables. Ones I got blow bubbles. So, had to get another one. I’m hoping to do this today.. as I would like to check out your results to mine.
Something I noticed. These for sure are 4ohm. Now more then ever. Lol. Least resting. Sadly I did not use my meter to check the before. Did you by chance?? I’m just curious.
It sort of sucks they are not 8 or close. But hey.. they do sound better.
Thanks man.

 

[Nwickliff]

Hello!! So, I’ve had a delay in getting my optical cables. Ones I got blow bubbles. So, had to get another one. I’m hoping to do this today.. as I would like to check out your results to mine.
Something I noticed. These for sure are 4ohm. Now more then ever. Lol. Least resting. Sadly I did not use my meter to check the before. Did you by chance?? I’m just curious.
It sort of sucks they are not 8 or close. But hey.. they do sound better.
Thanks man.

How do you measure the load? from what I understand there are no real 8 ohm Speakers, almost all are closer to 4 ohm. I’m most curious about that last rise in the response. I wonder if I mic has been damaged, I’ll check against another speaker I own.