Kii/8C PSI shootout at Kore Studios

[watchnerd]

The 8Cs can accept an analogue input they don’t have RIAA so you will need a phono stage.
Keith

Yeah, that's lame. They should do the RIAA in DSP. They have the compute power.

 

[Purité Audio]

With something like Acourate or Audiolense you probably can. You might need more than just two subwoofers depending on your room.

I'm going to be going the Acourate or Audiolense route for my main man cave setup, but I didn't include using either of those software in my above reply as this stuff is really enthusiast level fiddling. ie you can see just how time consuming Acourate can be with this review. And I read through all of Mitch's DSP book and it was not a light read, though it was exceptionally well written.

The other thing is I don't know of any audiophile brand speakers that measure as well as D&D directivity wise besides maybe Vivid Giya. I personally think you should have a great set of acoustically engineered speakers before digital correction should be used.

Last I heard @Bjorn was working with Don Keele on some CBT line arrays, I bet those will be really good too.

The 8Cs already have physical subwoofer connections, and subwoofer integration should be implemented in the next firmware release.
You will be able to choose to add subs both constructively ( if you have an exceptionally large room) and destructively which I find a rather more interesting prospect, delay phase, gain etc all adjustable from the speakers own app.
Keith

 

[watchnerd]

The other thing is I don't know of any audiophile brand speakers that measure as well as D&D directivity wise besides maybe Vivid Giya. I personally think you should have a great set of acoustically engineered speakers before digital correction should be used.

I haven't seen a polar plot for the Dynaudio Contour 20, but I have seen it for their pro monitors. And they get tested in this rig, which makes the JBL / Harman spin-o-rama that Toole and Olive used look primitive. And you wouldn't bother with all this if you weren't doing serious R&D on spatial response:

 

[watchnerd]

Now I do share your guys concerns about companies like Kii and D&D being around for a long time and this is one reason why I am waiting to see who else releases such products; these are basically speakers with a networked computer in a box.

If the majors, guys who do their own driver design and have much bigger production / R&D, folks like Focal, Genelec, B&W, Harman, Dynaudio, TAD, decide to emulate the approach, I don't see how the boutique guys survive.

The best they can hope for is to get acquired.

 

[Purité Audio]

The larger companies have to decide whether they will make one loudspeaker that effectively makes their entire range redundant.
ATC use MiniDSP processors to prototype their crossovers yet their customer demographic doesn’t allow them to produce a loudspeaker with a digital crossover, they still produce passives for the same reason.
Only a new company with the skills and without the baggage can make these.
Barefoot aren’t bad, a sort of stepping stone, I don’t know why they didn’t want to sell to the domestic market I wrote to Thomas probably ten years ago asking to represent them.
Keith

 

[Bjorn]

I'm late to this excitement. My observations:

• In speaker design, the Beolab 90s, Kiis and 8Cs together represent the biggest step forward in loudspeaker design in my lifetime.

I agree that they well designed speakers, but cardioid dispersion speakers have been around for a long time. It's nothing new. What B&O has done with adjustable beamwidth is new however, though the idea is also old.

 

[Purité Audio]

I hugely admire the Beolab 90s, the narrow width is quite narrow though fine for one listener ( at the listening distances I have tried) I thought there was a noticeable loss of image sharpness when switched to the ‘wide’ option?
Omni is probably good for parties, but initially at least quite odd almost disorientating.
Keith

 

[watchnerd]

ATC use MiniDSP processors to prototype their crossovers yet their customer demographic doesn’t allow them to produce a loudspeaker with a digital crossover, they still produce passives for the same reason.

This aspect of ATC annoys me so much.

Amazing driver designs that have stood the test of time, but they stubbornly stick to analog crossovers and class AB amps.

Sadly, probably have to wait for ole Billy to depart this mortal coil before that changes.

 

[Thomas savage]

I was thoroughly underwhelmed by the beolab 90 as was the market as they could not give them away.

 

[Purité Audio]

They are superb loudspeakers, a tour de force, I wonder whether anything so ambitious will ever be attempted again.
When I last spoke to B&O they had sold over 600 pairs worldwide that isn’t bad for a £60k loudspeaker.
B&O have and are continuing to struggle I believe but then most retailers are.

 

[Thomas savage]

They are superb loudspeakers, a tour de force, I wonder whether anything so ambitious will ever be attempted again.
When I last spoke to B&O they had sold over 600 pairs worldwide that isn’t bad for a £60k loudspeaker.
B&O have and are continuing to struggle I believe but then most retailers are.

Yea the stores have to buy them then when stuck they get them off their books for below half price so they can invest in more B&O goodies that sound terrible.

Amirs salon speakers with a bit of bass management were a much better listen imo ( better image , tighter bass and a wider listening zone) maybe the beolabs just needed a firmware upgrade when I auditioned them ha ha.

Gotto applaud the engineering ambition though even if it were only marketing strategy from a fairly desperate company. If they were financially successful one would assume others would be encouraged.

 

[Purité Audio]

I know a chap who bought a pair for £37k from their Exeter, branch?
The Salons are good, not as good as the 8Cs though , I have a brand new pair if you are interested, piano black, new in their boxes?
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

I know a chap who bought a pair for £37k from their Exeter, branch?
The Salons are good, not as good as the 8Cs though , I have a brand new pair if you are interested, piano black, new in their boxes?
Keith

Nope they are no better than what I have and I have no intrest in buying another pair of passives , if I spend anymore on hifi it will be to down size and simplify.

I’d never buy another Harman product in the uk anyway, my experience of them has been terrible.

There’s been a few £32k beolabs knocking about every store I spoke to (3 or 4 plus harrods ) said they were a disaster for them ( on the quite).

 

[Purité Audio]

I would agree with you on Harman in the U.K. an unmitigated continuing disaster.
I have given up with them.
Keith

 

[Bjorn]

I hugely admire the Beolab 90s, the narrow width is quite narrow though fine for one listener ( at the listening distances I have tried) I thought there was a noticeable loss of image sharpness when switched to the ‘wide’ option?
Omni is probably good for parties, but initially at least quite odd almost disorientating.
Keith

Yes. That's the obvious result of a greater amount of specular reflections.
Omnis makes sense IMO outdoor or if a speaker is for some odd reason placed in the middle of the room and the listeners are all around......

 

[Sal1950]

Really? That's why Kii already added the BXT low bass module and even money says D&D won't be far behind.

The 8Cs already have physical subwoofer connections, and subwoofer integration should be implemented in the next firmware release.

Ah, so I was right all along. D&D recognizes the need for improvement in deep bass and has plans for sub module. They wouldn't be doing all this if they didn't intend on releasing a subwoofer product and the need for it..

 

[Purité Audio]

Yes Sal primarily for destructive purposes, you know to smooth response.
Todd Welti wrote a paper on the subject,I will try and find a link.
Is it just too difficult to believe a smallish standmount can be completely full-range?
Keith

 

[svart-hvitt]

On the Kii Three with BXT and Barefoot: You know when you’ve been aped:

Source: https://barefootsound.com/masterstack12/

Source: https://www.kiiaudio.com/bxt.php

 

[restorer-john]

Given that you have to control the 8C with a phone app it probably won't even be usable in 10 years...

Sorry, any piece of gear that requires the use of an app running on a third party device to correctly function is not my idea of HiFi. If that is indeed true, they are a complete non-starter for a whole lot of people.

...should be implemented in the next firmware release...

Yep, we all heard that level of BS too many times.

I have products where Apple's IOS updates have rendered them unable to function or worse, be utterly bricked after only a few years. A $1500+ drone was completely bricked when unused for 18 months, due to the IOS and app updates marching on several versions too far for it. Cannot even communicate with its own controller due to IOS/APP changes. Can't roll back. Can't even fly manually. Thanks Apple and DJI. And they are the big guys in each of their fields- how is some upstart speaker company gonna keep up and support something they don't sell anymore in a few years?

 

[svart-hvitt]

Sorry, any piece of gear that requires the use of an app running on a third party device to correctly function is not my idea of HiFi. If that is indeed true, they are a complete non-starter for a whole lot of people.

I have gear here where Apple's IOS updates have rendered them unable to function or worse, be utterly bricked after only a few years. A $1500+ drone was completely bricked when unused for 18 months, due to the OS updates marching on several versions too far for it. Cannot even communicate with the controller due to OS changes. Can't roll back. Can't even fly manually. Thanks Apple and DJI. And they are the big guys in each of their fields- how is some upstart speaker company gonna keep up and support something they don't sell anymore in a few years?

My B&O Beolit 12, a small portable wifi speaker, cannot be updated anymore due to generations of iOS updates (4-5 years old).

So it only works with USB cable now...

And this is B&O, not some startup.