KEF R8 Meta Dolby Atmos Speaker Review

[exm]

I guess not bad for sure....BUT...

$1,600 a pair for what is basically 2 quite small speakers......Not sure I would call that "Great"?

Personally I feel these speaker are overpriced also but there's not a lot of alternatives besides the older R8a or Q50a.

 

[ElJaimito]

Excuse my incomprehension: but I just don't see how these are supposed to work. I am not talking about the speaker itself, it seems typically KEF and well-enough engineered, but the concept of an upward-firing unit bouncing off the ceiling, as against a true ceiling mounted unit. There's the precedence (or Haas) effect to take into consideration.

Say the unit is (in Imperial units) 7 feet from the listener. It's bouncing off a ceiling, at roughly seated ear height, say from an elevation of 4' on top of a piece of furniture. Say the ceiling height is 8'. The path length from the speaker via the ceiling is 4' plus the solution of the triangle, which is 8' near enough, or 12'. That's 12 ms near enough. But the direct path from the speaker to the ear is 7', 7 ms (again approximately). So the ceiling bounce arrives roughly 5ms after the direct sound from the speaker to the ear. This 5 ms difference is well within the Haas window (~40 ms), so the direct sound from the speaker will dominate the impression of spacial location. All that the reflection will achieve is a slight smearing of the perception of the actual speaker location. And some comb filtering... No? Pace the post a couple above...

Where is my reasoning going wrong here? Corrections welcome... various companies are selling similar devices, so I suspect I must have a logical error somewhere here! Or they are all snake oil!

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Sure. What happens when the drill hits the steel mesh? (This is all theoretical for me.)

Nothing it will slow down a bit and then get going. But if your house is somewhat constructed to some standards the steel rebar is covered by ca 2in of concrete. As a you only hang some flimsy speaker you have to drill at most 1in and get one of those plastic anchors from homedepot to hold it. (So you never hit steel rebar).

 

[LiviuTM]

I think the R8a (dont think there is/was an R8a Meta) was the previous (non meta) incarnation judging by Kef's site- shows as a lot cheaper and sold out.

I'm asking because the local KEF dealer has the KEF R8a Meta listed (https://www.avstore.ro/boxe/kef-r8a-meta). The deal looks pretty good, the price with VAT included is equivalent to 1300 Euro, and the warranty is 5 years.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Nothing it will slow down a bit and then get going. But if your house is somewhat constructed to some standards the steel rebar is covered by ca 2in of concrete. As a you only hang some flimsy speaker you have to drill at most 1in and get one of those plastic anchors from homedepot to hold it. (So you never hit steel rebar).

Just weld a steel bracket to the rebar and be done with it already.. Jeez!

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Just weld a steel bracket to the rebar and be done with it already.. Jeez!

I like overkill

 

[FrankW]

Where is my reasoning going wrong here?

Pretty sure the Height channel is an independently driven channel, with further separate settings for atop speaker vs in wall/ceiling height.

 

[YSC]

fine for what it's design for if not great, and extra bonus mark gave to the fantastic look of the UniQ driver

 

[Vacceo]

Tough question since I have no result experience with in-wall speakers. My journey for height speakers went from SVS Prime to Kef Q50A to R8 Meta. I honestly didn’t expect much difference between the Q50 and R8M but I was immediately surprised how much more open these speakers sounds. Didn’t have that experience when I went from the SVS to the Q50. Kef really worked some magic with this generation Uni-Q. That’s why I am upgrading my non-Meta Kef Reference center also shortly

About you second question: I believe Dolby wants Atmos speakers to be directly aimed at the mlp and I feel that these speakers, especially with 6 in my room, achieve this. My ceiling is actually vaulted so in-ceiling isn’t even an option! I really love these speakers but boy, are they expensive (even after the dealer discount).

Kef will refresh the Q series with Meta soon, so I am expecting a more affordable similar Q Meta. Guessing a $899 MSRP?

From what I have red, the key aspect of an atmos setup is the angle at which speakers project sound. If the angle is respected, I guess that EQ and time adjustment will render quite good results.

 

[pseudoid]

@ElJaimito,

Because some are better than others and the only way to know is to measure it? We have been on a quest to find best speakers for Atmos height. This is in that series. If you don't have this application or understand it, then just move along...

I think this is the gist of it and could not be construed any other way.

Excuse my incomprehension: but I just don't see how these are supposed to work.
Where is my reasoning going wrong here? Corrections welcome... various companies are selling similar devices, so I suspect I must have a logical error somewhere here! Or they are all snake oil!

I am totally miffed as well and have asked similar questions as you.
Such questions apparently are not relevant and justified, as what @amirm is attempting to achieve with Klippel testing.
If you are not seeking to hear the hair falling on the ground with Atmos speakers, then it is most obvious that you don't want this type of a "haircut" [figurative and literal].

 

[Robbo99999]

These speakers are clearly well designed.
However, there are obvious issues with this bouncy sound.

Placed on-top of a speaker they can interfere with each other.

There has to be loss for distance to the ceiling and loss for bouncing.
I don't think 6 dB is out of the question, so this speaker needs (at least IMO), 4x the power handling, not tested here.

It is reasonable to measure speakers, but up firing speakers are in the snake oil category.

Dolby Atmos is a marketing machine with very little regard to implementation.
For $$ you get the Atmos label. This cannot be argued as my ThinkPad has the Atmos logo, clearly ridiculous.

If mounted to aim at the listener, I'd give them a fine/good.
If mounted to bounce, then the wide dispersion is a negative. I'd give them poor because the concept is bad.
Bouncy sound for Atmos is where the product becomes all marketing and deserves to be called Crapmos.

- Rich

It does feel like a lot could go wrong in upfiring speakers, seems like there's too many variables associated with the room, I can't imagine it being the best solution (maybe not even a good one, not sure).

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Nothing it will slow down a bit and then get going. But if your house is somewhat constructed to some standards the steel rebar is covered by ca 2in of concrete. As a you only hang some flimsy speaker you have to drill at most 1in and get one of those plastic anchors from homedepot to hold it. (So you never hit steel rebar).

Just weld a steel bracket to the rebar and be done with it already.. Jeez!

If the speakers cannot be built into the ceiling (and they cannot), the only option is the use of ceiling-reflected Atmos-enabled speakers. This is a home and I/we will not tolerate a swarm of little boxes hanging from above. No way.

 

[pseudoid]

If the speakers cannot be built into the ceiling (and they cannot), the only option is the use of ceiling-reflected Atmos-enabled speakers. This is a home and I/we will not tolerate a swarm of little boxes hanging from above. No way.

You are old enough to be able to successfully use the W.A.F. excuse and be done with it.

 

[Timcognito]

Thanks Amir. Much enjoyed and appreciated after the speaker measurement tutorial you recently posted. Once again KEF stands out as a company that walks the walk since the 70s.

 

[amirm]

Exactly what I meant. I can't imagine why the response need to be exact for up-firing speakers which will be playing ambient sounds reflected from the ceiling..

As an object moves from front to ceiling and the the surrounds, you want the tonality to remain similar. The content was most likely produced using this setup and assumption. By your notion I should be able to put in a speaker with massively wrong response which make no sense.

 

[amirm]

Where is my reasoning going wrong here?

The angle hitting the listeners directly is 160 degree. By then the response at higher frequencies has fallen by many dbs. What hasn't is the bass. So the analysis is frequency dependent and very complex.

 

[Thomas_A]

I had the Onkyo SKH-410 up firing speakers but removed them. They did not make much in terms of adding reflecting sound from the roof, not at least what I could hear.

I bought another pair of speakers, Ino A1, and used them as front height. Their effect was better, even if it is not sound from above.

New small kit arrived - Atmos top front speakers

Just painted and will try finish it in the weekend. Will take away the cheap Onkyo Dolby Atmos enables roof firing speakers that doesn’t work as intended. I think top front will add more to the ambience. Speaker kit is Ino Audio Ambience 1.

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[imrul]

I remember reading here that putting the tweeter in the middle of the woofer is better for in-ceiling speakers. Would this be the case for speakers like this being angled from the top of the wall?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

As an object moves from front to ceiling and the the surrounds, you want the tonality to remain similar. The content was most likely produced using this setup and assumption. By your notion I should be able to put in a speaker with massively wrong response which make no sense.

No. You're putting words in my mouth. "massively wrong response".

I know you want similar response from your different surround speakers so panning sounds doesn't pop up. I've had a quite capable setup myself many years ago.

What I meant was that we rely on the ceiling to do the reflection of frequencies 1:1. And in that light I see a lot of unknowns which may make the frequency response of the speaker less relevant than lots of other variables.

 

[amirm]

What I meant was that we rely on the ceiling to do the reflection of frequencies 1:1. And in that light I see a lot of unknowns which may make the frequency response of the speaker less relevant than lots of other variables.

But you have no data or research to point to. So don't know what you want me to do with your comment.