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KEF R3 Speaker Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Steve Dallas
Major Contributor
I now remember why I missed these speakers...
This is my in-room response in my home office vs. Amir's PIR and Erin's PIR. My room is 12.4' wide x 12.3' deep x 10.5' high. I have tasteful broadband treatment on the front and rear walls. Side wall treatment is impossible. There is a thin rug on the floor. Measurements are MMM taken from the MLP, which is 7.5' from the speakers (which are 6.5' apart) and above an office chair behind a desk, so there surely is some desk bounce in play:
Left
Right
Amir's
Erin's
With Dirac correction to 1KHz:
Left
Right
The shadow flare issue is real; be sure to press it all the way in after unboxing (speakers were in different positions in the previous uncorrected plots, therefore ignore the low frequency differences):
Left
Right
All measurements taken. That R3 vs. BMR Grudge Rematch to the Probably not Death thread to be written up soon.
This is my in-room response in my home office vs. Amir's PIR and Erin's PIR. My room is 12.4' wide x 12.3' deep x 10.5' high. I have tasteful broadband treatment on the front and rear walls. Side wall treatment is impossible. There is a thin rug on the floor. Measurements are MMM taken from the MLP, which is 7.5' from the speakers (which are 6.5' apart) and above an office chair behind a desk, so there surely is some desk bounce in play:
Left
Right
Amir's
Erin's
With Dirac correction to 1KHz:
Left
Right
The shadow flare issue is real; be sure to press it all the way in after unboxing (speakers were in different positions in the previous uncorrected plots, therefore ignore the low frequency differences):
Left
Right
All measurements taken. That R3 vs. BMR Grudge Rematch to the Probably not Death thread to be written up soon.
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And the bass that comes out is really good for a bookshelf like that if you think about it.i have a small room and have oversized 400w amp and my R3 with the bass that they had could fill my entire room easy, but i did paired them with a subwoofer and now with Dirac i got an awesome frequency response like youI now remember why I missed these speakers...
This is my in-room response in my home office vs. Amir's PIR and Erin's PIR. My room is 12.4' wide x 12.3' deep x 10.5' high:
Left
View attachment 195215
Right
View attachment 195214
Amir's
Erin's
With Dirac correction to 1KHz:
Left
View attachment 195216
Right
View attachment 195217
All measurements taken. That R3 vs. BMR Rematch to the Probably not Death thread to be written up soon.
jgiannakas
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From the graph it looks like 1/24 smoothing is applied. Still though that is excellent behaviour.
Steve Dallas
Major Contributor
I used 1/24 smoothing, which helps make the measurements more readable, but is not enough to obscure any important data, as the tall but narrow peaks and dips are inaudible. Here is the left speaker with no smoothing for comparison:
1/24 smoothing tells the same story as no smoothing.
This is the left speaker with psycho-acoustic smoothing applied. This is supposedly how we hear, but this level of smoothing, which is similar to 1/3, should raise eyebrows in any speaker review IMHO. It is only good for showing general trends:
Steve Dallas
Major Contributor
I meant to include these graphs in my post above. This is the predicted in-room response from @amirm 's NFS spin overlaid with my measured in-room response in my room. These are not well-level-matched. I just eyeballed areas of agreement.
As you can see, I do not have as much of the midrange dip between 1 and 3KHz in my room. Otherwise, agreement is pretty good!
As you can see, I do not have as much of the midrange dip between 1 and 3KHz in my room. Otherwise, agreement is pretty good!
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BrokenEnglishGuy
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You don't feel the range between 50hz-100hz~ a little bit weak?
Steve Dallas
Major Contributor
BrokenEnglishGuy
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You got a nice FR
After the room correction I guess you feel the bass stronger and more accurate
ROOSKIE
Major Contributor
Interesting how many comments are about the R3's bass.
I realize integrating subs (and buying subs) can be a bit of a pain, that said there is no comparison between any of my bookshelf speakers with and with out subs.
Subs beat no subs every time bar none.
Now that I have my way to integrating subs down to a personal science, I have never once thought my speakers sound better without subs.
I listen to a wide variety of music, I do listen to quite a selection of tunes with bass such as all sorts of electronic stuff. I also listen medium loud to louder regularly.
R3's need subs, @least in my 12x23 foot bigger side of medium room. Not even close, even with small subs.
Even if I get a similar moving mic in room energy trend the difference is immediate and I have to recommend subs here.
Human hearing is just is not sensitive to bass and needs extra SPL there as well so subs allow for that to be adjusted in way that is difficult with just the monitors. I think often lean bass is mistaken for accurate bass. Don't get me wrong the R3 IS accurate in my estimation, it is also a bit lean before the subs come into play like most bookshelf speakers in this space.
I cross at 68hz and slightly overlap the subs and monitors (this essentially allows for 4 solid bass sources from the 60's to about 120 - filling in much of the nulls from room modes and SBIR), then I use DSP to tame peaks and time align.
The distortion is extremely low and when HP'd like I am doing I'd estimate a complete zero factor.
@Steve Dallas posted his in room energy captures and mine are very similar, the R3 has a very smooth upper energy and a very interesting sound.
Pardon the prose, they are simultaneously dry/clean and neatly rich - like very well made plain dark chocolate. As pristine as they are unfortunately they are never quite fully fun when I rock out. My GF described them as "reverse osmosis water". That said I have zero problem with saying they are indeed 5/5 star speakers and easy to see why they gather high praises (and yet not quite my personal choice @least in my sighted and clumsy fun testing).
I really want to hear the Reference 1 Meta.
EDIT my Gf wanted me to add this, I am sure HARMAN blind testing would agree.
KEF R3= Matrix/Neo
REVEL M16 = James Bond (Daniel Craig in No Time to Die, the scene where the car is being shot up and he is inside all calm until exactly when he is ready and then just rips)
JBL L82&4309 = Braveheart/Rocky
I realize integrating subs (and buying subs) can be a bit of a pain, that said there is no comparison between any of my bookshelf speakers with and with out subs.
Subs beat no subs every time bar none.
Now that I have my way to integrating subs down to a personal science, I have never once thought my speakers sound better without subs.
I listen to a wide variety of music, I do listen to quite a selection of tunes with bass such as all sorts of electronic stuff. I also listen medium loud to louder regularly.
R3's need subs, @least in my 12x23 foot bigger side of medium room. Not even close, even with small subs.
Even if I get a similar moving mic in room energy trend the difference is immediate and I have to recommend subs here.
Human hearing is just is not sensitive to bass and needs extra SPL there as well so subs allow for that to be adjusted in way that is difficult with just the monitors. I think often lean bass is mistaken for accurate bass. Don't get me wrong the R3 IS accurate in my estimation, it is also a bit lean before the subs come into play like most bookshelf speakers in this space.
I cross at 68hz and slightly overlap the subs and monitors (this essentially allows for 4 solid bass sources from the 60's to about 120 - filling in much of the nulls from room modes and SBIR), then I use DSP to tame peaks and time align.
The distortion is extremely low and when HP'd like I am doing I'd estimate a complete zero factor.
@Steve Dallas posted his in room energy captures and mine are very similar, the R3 has a very smooth upper energy and a very interesting sound.
Pardon the prose, they are simultaneously dry/clean and neatly rich - like very well made plain dark chocolate. As pristine as they are unfortunately they are never quite fully fun when I rock out. My GF described them as "reverse osmosis water". That said I have zero problem with saying they are indeed 5/5 star speakers and easy to see why they gather high praises (and yet not quite my personal choice @least in my sighted and clumsy fun testing).
I really want to hear the Reference 1 Meta.
EDIT my Gf wanted me to add this, I am sure HARMAN blind testing would agree.
KEF R3= Matrix/Neo
REVEL M16 = James Bond (Daniel Craig in No Time to Die, the scene where the car is being shot up and he is inside all calm until exactly when he is ready and then just rips)
JBL L82&4309 = Braveheart/Rocky
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ROOSKIE
Major Contributor
Bummer.
It looks bad and I wouldn't want it that way visually, rest assured that dent has absolute zero effect on the sound.
That woofer is making spheres of sound that have diameters from a couple feet to a few dozen feet.
If the dent was really bad it could weaken the integrity of the cone, it this it looks cosmetic only and no case for any worry.
I would also like to know this (if anyone has tried this configuration). I have pretty much decided to get a pair of R3's but I won't be able to use them in the vertical position (for now at least).
I use it as such for a center, no obvious issues. The measurements back up my subjective take
Steve Dallas
Major Contributor
Different strokes, I guess. I find excess bass energy annoying when listening to background music in my home office. Compounding the question... I do not have room for subs in that room, nor do I want to change the electronics to accommodate bass management for proper sub integration.
This becomes your horizontal plot when you lay one on its side (+/- 30 degrees):
And from Erin's site (also +/- 30 degrees):
They are certainly workable in this orientation thanks to the coaxial design, and are a better choice than most any conventional WMT design.
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Should I be worried about placing R3's near the back wall (15cm/6'') if I'm going to use a sub? Or is that a minor issue? The manual does state 23cm/9'' as minimum. I'm also considering LS50 meta's which are smaller and seem to be less picky about their placement but I do like the R3's more "on paper" (and they do look better IMO). I'm just trying to figure out if there are obvious reasons why R3's might not be the best option for me (the room is also not large 3x6m/10x20').
I'd say don't be worried. And there will be no real placement difference between R3 and LS50 Meta (aside from the R3 might not physically fit).
KEF's manuals (like many speaker manufacturers) seem to be all over the place on positioning, with no firm logic. I get a vague sense of each speaker's manual depending mainly on which engineer happened to field the question from the tech author the day it was written. You're seeing a difference of personal opinion as much as a difference in the speaker.
Absolute minimum rear distance only really needs to be at least the port diameter to ensure it works, if it's not plugged. 15cm should be fine.
But the closer to the wall you are the stronger the bass. Looking at the manual more closely, you'll see that below the '225mm (9") MIN', it then rather confusingly shows plug insertion with '< 225mm (9")' - in other words you can have it closer, but you might want to counteract the bass boost with partial or full plug insertion. It will depend on the room.
(If you're using a sub, then you might want to plug the ports regardless - sub integration can be easier with a "sealed" speaker).
The issues on placement are quite complex, so there's no really simple answer. There are pros and cons to various positions, and the weighting will depend on the room - which con is most objectionable.
Genelec has an in-detail look at the issues here - How To Place Your Monitors
And KEF themselves had this blog post - How to Get the Most Out of Your Rear-Ported Speakers
SpeakersForTheDead
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The KEF R3s are on sale at Woot for $1600 atm.
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