KEF R3 Speaker Review

[Bear123]

R3 amplifier matching experience

Ok, I finally ordered mine 2days ago (can't wait ...). Now what beast for the beauties ?
Didn't found much on the web, except What Hifi saying the Rega Elex-R does well (Read the review). Somebody uses them as monitors in a studio, powered by a Bryston amp (

)
From my experience, as I said before, first listening session was with an Arcam SA20, which fitted the R3s acceptably well, but I'm the lucky owner of TEAC UD-501 DAC which means that I'm looking for a purely analog amplifier.
This time, the dealer connected first an Atoll IN100 signature. From an engineer's POV, a good amp (double mono, 100W MOSFETs, serious building and power supply), and I had good hopes for this one, considering the R3s as a "tough" load. Despite beeing tonally correct and with good dynamics, the sound was not "open" and musical enough for my taste. Kind of a good student, but not a gifted one.
I asked the dealer to plug a Moon 250i for comparison (I listened to one 3 years ago and it sounded fine), and started listening to my playlist again. Wow ! Music ! Forget about bass, treble or whatever. Everything in place, rythm and pace, natural focus on what's important, but you can listen to every music part without problem and hear the components of complex sounds (try on Fleetwood Mac - Rumours, the choir on "The chain" ...). That, as a musician, is what I was looking for. Downside: it's more than twice the price of the Atoll (2500 EUR vs 1100 USD) .
Why is it a match ? Maybe the fact that the Moon delivers 50W/8ohms and 100W/4ohms, which makes it cope with the load with grace.
Have to try the bigger Atoll IN200 Signature, and an NCore 400 or Purifi (I have a TEAC HA-501 which serves as a preamp) but a little voice inside my head tells me to quit the search there...

Many here would claim that if you had listened to these various amps blind and level matched, your perceptions would have been much different, as our perception of what we hear is unavoidably influenced when we see/know what we are listening to. However, perception is reality, and there is no doubt you heard what you heard. However, your experience here might end up a bit frustrating if you are unwilling to admit the possibility that what you hear is most definitely and unavoidably influenced by more than just the actual sound reaching your ear.

 

[Chromatischism]

R3 amplifier matching experience

Downside: it's more than twice the price of the Atoll (2500 EUR vs 1100 USD) .

Did you know this before hand?

Why is it a match ?
Everything in place, rythm and pace

Not this.

Maybe the fact that the Moon delivers 50W/8ohms and 100W/4ohms, which makes it cope with the load with grace.

Probably this.

Have to try the bigger Atoll IN200 Signature, and an NCore 400 or Purifi (I have a TEAC HA-501 which serves as a preamp) but a little voice inside my head tells me to quit the search there...

If I'm reading these specs correctly: https://simaudio.com/en/product/250i-integrated-amplifier/

An NCore or Purifi would have lower distortion. Whether the difference is audible I am not sure.

What would be a very interesting experiment for you would be to have someone switch between the Moon 250i and a $500 NCore stereo amp without you knowing which is which, playing the same passages over and over. See if you can guess which is playing more than 50% of the time.

Ultimately though if you are happy you can call it a day.

 

[fmplayer]

Many here would claim that if you had listened to these various amps blind and level matched, your perceptions would have been much different, as our perception of what we hear is unavoidably influenced when we see/know what we are listening to. However, perception is reality, and there is no doubt you heard what you heard. However, your experience here might end up a bit frustrating if you are unwilling to admit the possibility that what you hear is most definitely and unavoidably influenced by more than just the actual sound reaching your ear.

I would even call it rather a probability than just a possibility

Did you know this before hand?

Yes, but I don't consider there is a necessarily direct relationship between price and musical results, for amplifiers at least. What sounds better for my musican's ear is better. Period. Fine if price tag suits my wallet, too bad if not.

Everything in place, rythm and pace
Not this.

I was talking about musical sensation, and once again, from my musician's POV, that's what makes me listen to music. It was like the difference between a piece of music played by an average player, and the same played by a great player. Notes are the same, but the former is boring, the latter entertaining. Assuming this is recorded (and quite a lot of people care about it), my point is to find elements that allow me to hear it.

Probably this.

Point is to find a correlation between sensations and objective parameters, so you know what to look for in a hifi element. If this parameter is really what made it sound so good (to me), it would be interesting to listen to a transconductance amp.

An NCore or Purifi would have lower distortion. Whether the difference is audible I am not sure.

That's an interesting point. In the 70ies, there was a debate due to the use of high amounts of negative feedback in order to reduce THD. From the engineers POV, it was fine. We had to wait for transient IMD and change of harmonic content by NFB studies to change our vision. If I'm not wrong, Putzeys spoke in an article about the global NFB loop he was using in Ncore and Purifi amps. So yes, I'd like to listen to an Ncore amp. Latest TEAC amps (AX and AP 505) are Ncore implementations , and they are so cute ...

What would be a very interesting experiment for you would be to have someone switch between the Moon 250i and a $500 NCore stereo amp without you knowing which is which, playing the same passages over and over. See if you can guess which is playing more than 50% of the time.

100%. But I'd first start with the blind comparison between the Moon and the Atoll just to figure out if I was delusional

Sticking to the primary point, and FWIW, my experience is that the Moon is a very good match with the R3. Considering the high price point, I'll try to find a more affordable alternative, be it an Ncore or whatever well engineered amp and will share my findings.

Happy new year to all of you and stay healthy

 

[Bear123]

WOW, I just realized that 3 of these would make an amazing LCR since the R3 performs basically the same on its side as it does vertically! Timbre match across the front should be close to perfect while still having a low profile center channel. Paradigm shift for me.

 

[digitalfrost]

KEF also offers a matching center, the R2c.

 

[Bear123]

KEF also offers a matching center, the R2c.

With grille off, it would look better from a symmetry standpoint, and have a little more capability. Off axis should be good since 3 way. Maybe not "as" good?

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Along with the “lossy interface between voice coil and midrange cone” (aka Neck Control) there is another trick used by KEF to suppress midrange driver break up and improve pistonic behavior: those ribs stamped on the cone itself improves structural strength.

"The stiffness is increased by the radial embossing in the cone profile, but nevertheless it is prone to high-Q breakup in the frequency range covered by the tweeter.” (that’s the reason neck control is also needed to suppress any possible out of band break up) All of this stuff is overly explained in the Blade Concept Whitepaper for whoever is interested.

One could say if we compare KEF Engineers work with the common audio company competitor and several DIY kits...this guys have made their homework and know their stuff.

By the way, the graph uploaded by @thewas_ corrsponds to The Reference line, this one is from 2018 R series UniQ:
View attachment 84575
Just remember this is a 1300£/1600€/2000$ speaker (price could be much lower with discounts and Black Friday). I think what you get was simply inconceivable a few years ago at this pricepoint. Lets move on

That ugly FR is clearly a user problem and not the speaker, lol.

 

[digitalfrost]

With grille off, it would look better from a symmetry standpoint, and have a little more capability. Off axis should be good since 3 way. Maybe not "as" good?

It's more expensive than the R3, and the added woofer probably will not add much SPL for the center channel, so it's mostly cosmetics I think. I just thought I'd mention it. If optical symmetry is worth 400€ to you is your decision

 

[Frank Dernie]

It's more expensive than the R3, and the added woofer probably will not add much SPL for the center channel, so it's mostly cosmetics I think. I just thought I'd mention it. If optical symmetry is worth 400€ to you is your decision

I think the R3 is sold in pairs (at least here), so you may have a redundant one/spare if you want to have one as a centre and have spent more than buying the centre speaker.

 

[Bear123]

It's more expensive than the R3, and the added woofer probably will not add much SPL for the center channel, so it's mostly cosmetics I think. I just thought I'd mention it. If optical symmetry is worth 400€ to you is your decision

No decision for me, but I take your point. No plans on changing my speakers, although this actually isn't completely true. I currently have a Revel C25 center channel, because it "matches"(does it?) my L/R, but its an MTM 2 way. I just ordered the RC263 because it was on sale for $149. I plan to compare it in my system and see how it stacks up measurably and subjectively.

With KEF, it's an appealing option especially with their 2 way coax speakers for folks looking for entry level, optimally matched LCR. Most have to settle for a lousy 2 way MTM due to height restrictions.

 

[Bear123]

I think the R3 is sold in pairs (at least here), so you may have a redundant one/spare if you want to have one as a centre and have spent more than buying the centre speaker.

Good point.

 

[fmplayer]

WOW, I just realized that 3 of these would make an amazing LCR since the R3 performs basically the same on its side as it does vertically! Timbre match across the front should be close to perfect while still having a low profile center channel. Paradigm shift for me.

Plus the fact that, contrary to consumer dedicated center channels, pro monitors used for center channel in mastering facilities are frequently the same as for the sides (no WAF to care of ).
Moreover, typical center channels are a horizontal d'Appolito configuration, which means that reflections to ceiling and floor will be strong.

BTW, R2c have 2 x 5,5" and resemble rather the R5 (same configuration floorstander)

 

[stren]

Plus the fact that, contrary to consumer dedicated center channels, pro monitors used for center channel in mastering facilities are frequently the same as for the sides (no WAF to care of ).
Moreover, typical center channels are a horizontal d'Appolito configuration, which means that reflections to ceiling and floor will be strong.

BTW, R2c have 2 x 5,5" and resemble rather the R5 (same configuration floorstander)

The two 5.5" drivers also mean the waveguide style surround on the uni-q driver is not as big and presumably not as effective. I'd like them to put out a large center like they did on the old R series, or sell the R3 as individual units as they do with the LS50.

 

[fmplayer]

I think the R3 is sold in pairs (at least here), so you may have a redundant one/spare if you want to have one as a centre and have spent more than buying the centre speaker.

I have hard times believing that one cannot buy just one piece. What do you do if one speaker is destroyed for some reason ? Did somebody ever tried? Isn't customer the boss?

 

[BYRTT]

...Isn't customer the boss?

No boss is Amir ...

 

[tifune]

The distortion graphs is still work in progress as I continue to fight the Klippel software to generate proper SPL measures. It seems that in this graph, despite what I reported earlier, SPLs are not trustworthy. The ratios are. So let's look at that while giving the speaker 10 volts to push it more than 2.83 volts that I use for spinorama:

View attachment 54001

I'm trying to determine reconcile this with Kef's somewhat vague spec of "Max Output: 110dB"

Given above, I realize there's about 3x the wattage between 105dB and 110dB at 87dB sensitivity but as clean as this graph is I wouldn't think 110dB max continuous is completely out of the question?

 

[tifune]

WOW, I just realized that 3 of these would make an amazing LCR since the R3 performs basically the same on its side as it does vertically! Timbre match across the front should be close to perfect while still having a low profile center channel. Paradigm shift for me.

LS50 Meta's are now being sold individually as 'center' packages - "only" $100 extra! At that margin I'm sure some dealer out there would gladly do the same for a R3, maybe accessories4less.com ?

 

[Steve Dallas]

WOW, I just realized that 3 of these would make an amazing LCR since the R3 performs basically the same on its side as it does vertically! Timbre match across the front should be close to perfect while still having a low profile center channel. Paradigm shift for me.

I used my black R3s as LR and one of my Black Edition LS50s as the C for several months. The combination worked well, and we liked that the "center" was matte black underneath the screen.

 

[HooStat]

The R2C is a very nice speaker too and matches the R3. Personally, if I had the room I would get 3 of them across the front. They are not ported which could be a good thing depending on your placement. I believe that is why there is an extra driver.

 

[batfunk]

R3 amplifier matching experience

Ok, I finally ordered mine 2days ago (can't wait ...). Now what beast for the beauties ?
Didn't found much on the web, except What Hifi saying the Rega Elex-R does well (Read the review). Somebody uses them as monitors in a studio, powered by a Bryston amp (

)
From my experience, as I said before, first listening session was with an Arcam SA20, which fitted the R3s acceptably well, but I'm the lucky owner of TEAC UD-501 DAC which means that I'm looking for a purely analog amplifier.
This time, the dealer connected first an Atoll IN100 signature. From an engineer's POV, a good amp (double mono, 100W MOSFETs, serious building and power supply), and I had good hopes for this one, considering the R3s as a "tough" load. Despite beeing tonally correct and with good dynamics, the sound was not "open" and musical enough for my taste. Kind of a good student, but not a gifted one.
I asked the dealer to plug a Moon 250i for comparison (I listened to one 3 years ago and it sounded fine), and started listening to my playlist again. Wow ! Music ! Forget about bass, treble or whatever. Everything in place, rythm and pace, natural focus on what's important, but you can listen to every music part without problem and hear the components of complex sounds (try on Fleetwood Mac - Rumours, the choir on "The chain" ...). That, as a musician, is what I was looking for. Downside: it's more than twice the price of the Atoll (2500 EUR vs 1100 USD) .
Why is it a match ? Maybe the fact that the Moon delivers 50W/8ohms and 100W/4ohms, which makes it cope with the load with grace.
Have to try the bigger Atoll IN200 Signature, and an NCore 400 or Purifi (I have a TEAC HA-501 which serves as a preamp) but a little voice inside my head tells me to quit the search there...

HI!
Don't trust What Hifi reviews, it's all subjectivist stuff, no measurements. Check out more serious sites as this one or
Stereophile. Subjective test mean nothing without scientific measurements to compare with.

Forget about Atoll amps, they're badly built and probably dangerous! Check out this French report from a repairer, who is not tongued-tie:
https://hifirep.jimdofree.com/amplificateur-atoll-in100/

In France, Atoll amps are well promoted, probably because... They are made in France lol
I had same amp setup than you(Teac 501 series, all of them) but with Paradigm Prestige 85F.
I went to Audiophonics Hypex nc400 based one(1500 euros) a year ago , and IMHO, got a small improvement, with tighter bass and less distortion at very high volume(lot of power reserve, check out Amirm's test) . Now, you can get an Audiophonics purifi one for exactly same price, so get it! . HA-501 is a good headphones amp, with lot of Umph and power, but not as transparent as recent and cheaper ones, probably same thing as a preamp(Amirm tested IT, ). I went to SMSL m200/p200 combo with great satisfaction(tried Topping dx7 pro for a month, very transparent but flat sound, I didn't like it) Subjectively, I lost a bit of rumbling low bass compared to Ud501, but clearly gained details and tighter medium bass.