KEF R3 Speaker Review

[tecnogadget]

Just curious have you ever taken measurements of the R2c? I'm curious how close their response is to the R3, hopefully, they get tested here soon but if not even in-room measurements might show any differences between them.

Yes, in fact, I did measure it in both orientations Horizontal and Vertical, since it could be similar as a D'Appolito "MTM" (but not quite exactly since the mid driver is in the center and the drivers at the sides are "bass drivers") I wanted to test if orientation changed frequency response.

Just take with a grain of salt my measurements since they've been done with the speaker sitting on the shipping box, I don't have enough space until I finish building the new salon furniture I've designed and it was meant to be s simple check. Below 1kHz it looks like the room modes are screwing things. If compared directly with my R3's measurements, they are inside a fugly furniture shelf so even worse response below 1kHz is expected. Of course, I will post measurements of the proper final setup when it becomes endgame, hopefully, raw and corrected response with Dirac.

As you can see the uniformity response of the coaxial driver in both orientations is stellar, it's quite "orientation insensitive" and very similar to R3's. I would say they perfectly match with the R3's in respect to tonality, you would not notice the change from mains to center.

Yeah that's my hunch that they may be more neutral than the R3. I'm thinking using 3 as LCR might work out pretty well.

As to use the R2C for LRC is something I've also thought before I purchased my set, but even with the discount I got, it's more expensive to buy 3 separate R2C than a pair of R3 plus one R2C.
I cant use the center R2C in Vertical because it will interfere with the Tv or Projector screen. But L+R in Vertical and Center in Horizontal could be a solution if that's the case.

It also depends on your needs and strategy because R2C is bass shy compared to R3's. Maybe you want to interfere less with room modes and will use 2 subwoofers, then R2C as full LRC could be an option. If you won't use any subwoofer at all then the R3's superior kick would be required.
R2C=Sealed enclosure. R3=Ported enclosure.

 

[aarons915]

As to use the R2C for LRC is something I've also thought before I purchased my set, but even with the discount I got, it's more expensive to buy 3 separate R2C than a pair of R3 plus one R2C.
I cant use the center R2C in Vertical because it will interfere with the Tv or Projector screen. But L+R in Vertical and Center in Horizontal could be a solution if that's the case.

It also depends on your needs and strategy because R2C is bass shy compared to R3's. Maybe you want to interfere less with room modes and will use 2 subwoofers, then R2C as full LRC could be an option. If you won't use any subwoofer at all then the R3's superior kick would be required.
R2C=Sealed enclosure. R3=Ported enclosure.

Those are good points and yes I would also have the center horizontal as well. The bass does seem to roll off quite sharply, did you measure them full range or is a crossover in place? It interesting that there seems to be a slight boost at 3k, which could explain the increased vocal clarity.

 

[tecnogadget]

Those are good points and yes I would also have the center horizontal as well. The bass does seem to roll off quite sharply, did you measure them full range or is a crossover in place? It interesting that there seems to be a slight boost at 3k, which could explain the increased vocal clarity.

There is a possibility the AVR crossover was engaged and speaker set to Small but I cannot recall, it was a fast measurement.

 

[aarons915]

There is a possibility the AVR crossover was engaged and speaker set to Small but I cannot recall, it was a fast measurement.

If a crossover is in place, the bass response seems fine to blend with subs and I do use a dual sub setup. I have a nasty SBIR dip around 120Hz due to my placement and dual woofers seem to smooth that out a bit so that's also a bit why I was considering R2c for fronts. If I do I'll probably just drop ship 1 directly to Amir before even trying it myself, it's nice to have proper measurements for EQ purposes anyway.

 

[tecnogadget]

If a crossover is in place, the bass response seems fine to blend with subs and I do use a dual sub setup. I have a nasty SBIR dip around 120Hz due to my placement and dual woofers seem to smooth that out a bit so that's also a bit why I was considering R2c for fronts. If I do I'll probably just drop ship 1 directly to Amir before even trying it myself, it's nice to have proper measurements for EQ purposes anyway.

That’s awesome ! I thought the R2C didn’t have many chances of being measured since its been primary bookshelf and, less people care about centrals.

As for your 120Hz dip due to SBIR im quite intrigued if the dual 5” woofers gets to smooth it. It would be interesting.

 

[aarons915]

I ended up grabbing a pair of R3 to try out again, I actually brought a pair home last year and preferred the LS50 to them within their limits. This time I wanted to compare both that are EQ'd to be neutral and this time the R3 won pretty handily. All of the highs and openness that were missing without EQ were now present and the R3 just sounded like the better balanced speaker. One odd thing I noticed was my initial EQ that made them dead neutral actually sounded a bit too energetic in my smallish room, these actually have pretty strong sidewall reflections, especially when I point them straight ahead. So I decided to copy the Reference One listening window, which is just slightly downward sloping and that did the trick, I wouldn't say they sound as good as the Reference Ones even with EQ but they get very close. Anyone who tried these out and weren't impressed should definitely give them another go if you are able to add a few PEQ filters, I use Equalizer APO with the Peace addon for windows. I'll show both filter settings because I bet the more neutral set might be better for a larger room but who knows, if someone wants to test these out in a larger room that would be interesting. Note that I leave the highs above 10k alone, my in room measurements don't show them rolling off that severely so I just left them alone.

Neutral filters and before and after graphs:

Freq Spl Q
650 -.7 5
1800 1.7 .7
2700 -1 4
5000 -.3 4

Downward slope filters and Before and after graphs:

Freq Spl Q
650 -.7 5
1800 1.2 .7
2700 -1 4
5000 -1 2

 

[Chagall]

Hi guys and gals!
First time posting newbie here.

Two weeks ago, I pulled the trigger and bought R3’s. On my short list there were R3s, Buchardt S400s and Monitor Audio Gold 100s. Didn’t hear any of them but did lots of research here on the forum and read other various reviews. I was familiar with monitor audio, having listened to Silver 6s a fair bit, but otherwise do not have a lot of experience with loudspeakers, doing all my listening through headphones (Senn HD 600 & iSine 20).
Anyways, got the misses approval, great deal from a local distributor and got the Kefs.
Having the bar set low, I think they sound amazing for me and my needs. Didn’t notice any dips, but I did EQ -2dB from lows to get rid of the boominess (speakers are barely 20 cm from the wall). Still waiting for umik so I can EQ out the room.

Now on to the problem. The room is big (50m2), echoey and my amp lacks the balls to drive the speakers, especially on orchestral pieces and heavier rock can sound congested when listening a bit louder. Speakers are 2.8m apart and listening position is 3.2 from the speakers. Furniture will be added later but I need new amp now!

Currently using:
Roon (Tidal) – Google Chromecast (optical) – Rotel RA 12 integrated - Kef R3.

The goal:
To have enough oomph to fill the room (usually I don’t listen loud but sometimes).
To have full body sound and enough range for orchestral music and rock not to sound congested. RA 12 really struggles here.
To have neutral sound leaning to sweeter.

Shortlist:

• Rotel RB 1582 mk2 - somebody mentioned it here on the forum and my first choice – 1100 euro
• Parasound A23+ - cca 2000 euro
• Emotiva XPA/DR2 - cca 2000 euro

Rotel RA 12 integrated will be used as a preamp for now.

Or is it worth it to save up and get Hegel H190 integrated? 3500 euro.
I guess this is something only I can tell.

Sorry for all the unscientificness.

 

[Chromatischism]

Hi guys and gals!
First time posting newbie here.

Two weeks ago, I pulled the trigger and bought R3’s. On my short list there were R3s, Buchardt S400s and Monitor Audio Gold 100s. Didn’t hear any of them but did lots of research here on the forum and read other various reviews. I was familiar with monitor audio, having listened to Silver 6s a fair bit, but otherwise do not have a lot of experience with loudspeakers, doing all my listening through headphones (Senn HD 600 & iSine 20).
Anyways, got the misses approval, great deal from a local distributor and got the Kefs.
Having the bar set low, I think they sound amazing for me and my needs. Didn’t notice any dips, but I did EQ -2dB from lows to get rid of the boominess (speakers are barely 20 cm from the wall). Still waiting for umik so I can EQ out the room.

Now on to the problem. The room is big (50m2), echoey and my amp lacks the balls to drive the speakers, especially on orchestral pieces and heavier rock can sound congested when listening a bit louder. Speakers are 2.8m apart and listening position is 3.2 from the speakers. Furniture will be added later but I need new amp now!

Currently using:
Roon (Tidal) – Google Chromecast (optical) – Rotel RA 12 integrated - Kef R3.

The goal:
To have enough oomph to fill the room (usually I don’t listen loud but sometimes).
To have full body sound and enough range for orchestral music and rock not to sound congested. RA 12 really struggles here.
To have neutral sound leaning to sweeter.

Shortlist:

• Rotel RB 1582 mk2 - somebody mentioned it here on the forum and my first choice – 1100 euro
• Parasound A23+ - cca 2000 euro
• Emotiva XPA/DR2 - cca 2000 euro

Rotel RA 12 integrated will be used as a preamp for now.

Or is it worth it to save up and get Hegel H190 integrated? 3500 euro.
I guess this is something only I can tell.

Sorry for all the unscientificness.

I'll be the first to say that by far, without question, the best thing you could do to achieve your goal of full bodied sound with oomph, would be to take the time to purchase and set up a quality subwoofer (better: 2). It will give you 100x the return that a new amp would. Worry about that later.

I recommend heading over to http://www.rythmikaudio.com/

 

[TimVG]

Hi guys and gals!
First time posting newbie here.

Two weeks ago, I pulled the trigger and bought R3’s. On my short list there were R3s, Buchardt S400s and Monitor Audio Gold 100s. Didn’t hear any of them but did lots of research here on the forum and read other various reviews. I was familiar with monitor audio, having listened to Silver 6s a fair bit, but otherwise do not have a lot of experience with loudspeakers, doing all my listening through headphones (Senn HD 600 & iSine 20).
Anyways, got the misses approval, great deal from a local distributor and got the Kefs.
Having the bar set low, I think they sound amazing for me and my needs. Didn’t notice any dips, but I did EQ -2dB from lows to get rid of the boominess (speakers are barely 20 cm from the wall). Still waiting for umik so I can EQ out the room.

Now on to the problem. The room is big (50m2), echoey and my amp lacks the balls to drive the speakers, especially on orchestral pieces and heavier rock can sound congested when listening a bit louder. Speakers are 2.8m apart and listening position is 3.2 from the speakers. Furniture will be added later but I need new amp now!

Currently using:
Roon (Tidal) – Google Chromecast (optical) – Rotel RA 12 integrated - Kef R3.

The goal:
To have enough oomph to fill the room (usually I don’t listen loud but sometimes).
To have full body sound and enough range for orchestral music and rock not to sound congested. RA 12 really struggles here.
To have neutral sound leaning to sweeter.

Shortlist:

• Rotel RB 1582 mk2 - somebody mentioned it here on the forum and my first choice – 1100 euro
• Parasound A23+ - cca 2000 euro
• Emotiva XPA/DR2 - cca 2000 euro

Rotel RA 12 integrated will be used as a preamp for now.

Or is it worth it to save up and get Hegel H190 integrated? 3500 euro.
I guess this is something only I can tell.

Sorry for all the unscientificness.

Before going through with buying an expensive new amplifer: are you currently employing EQ for low frequencies or in general?

 

[tecnogadget]

While I'm driving my R3's with a Yamaha Z9 (1500 VA Toroidal Transformer, absolute beast almost 200w of clean power per channel in 8ohm),
I remember plugging them to an inexpensive but very convenient little Class-D amplifier "SMSL SA-60" that is 40/50W per channel just for the fun and to my surprise it made the R3's sang without a hassle.
Mind this mini amp is barely the size of 2 packs of cigarettes, so even though the R3's are not the highest sensitivity speakers out there I don't think they are really that hard to drive as people like to say on forums.

@Chagall Like I said, one could live with a 50W amp with these speakers but if you really want to push them and I understand you want to since they are great, you gotta go past the 100W bar. Maybe a clean 150W amp will give you enough power and headroom

 

[Chagall]

I'll be the first to say that by far, without question, the best thing you could do to achieve your goal of full bodied sound with oomph, would be to take the time to purchase and set up a quality subwoofer (better: 2). It will give you 100x the return that a new amp would. Worry about that later.

I recommend heading over to http://www.rythmikaudio.com/

I have and old Dali Concept Sub. Haven't had it connected in years, but yeah will try it out. Although, misses will not look kindly on it.

Before going through with buying an expensive new amplifer: are you currently employing EQ for low frequencies or in general?

EQed just low freq - 2dB @70Hz Q 0.5. I ordered Umik, still waiting for it to arrive. Think ill first see what can be achieved through REW and then Dirac. Just need to upgrade miniDsp 2x4HD.

 

[TimVG]

EQed just low freq - 2dB @70Hz Q 0.5. I ordered Umik, still waiting for it to arrive. Think ill first see what can be achieved through REW and then Dirac. Just need to upgrade miniDsp 2x4HD.

I've put together a filterset for you with respect to all of Amir's data.

It flattens the direct sound, taking in account the side-wall reflection and overall in-room curve

 

[Chagall]

While I'm driving my R3's with a Yamaha Z9 (1500 VA Toroidal Transformer, absolute beast almost 200w of clean power per channel in 8ohm),
I remember plugging them to an inexpensive but very convenient little Class-D amplifier "SMSL SA-60" that is 40/50W per channel just for the fun and to my surprise it made the R3's sang without a hassle.
Mind this mini amp is barely the size of 2 packs of cigarettes, so even though the R3's are not the highest sensitivity speakers out there I don't think they are really that hard to drive as people like to say on forums.

@Chagall Like I said, one could live with a 50W amp with these speakers but if you really want to push them and I understand you want to since they are great, you gotta go past the 100W bar. Maybe a clean 150W amp will give you enough power and headroom

Hm I've seen test of Crown 2502 or XTZ amp, just not sure about class D. Afraid it won't be full body and end up still going for clean AB power later.

 

[Chagall]

I've put together a filterset for you with respect to all of Amir's data.

View attachment 72577

It flattens the direct sound, taking in account the side-wall reflection and overall in-room curve

View attachment 72578

Thanks @TimVG! Is this correct?

 

[TimVG]

Thanks @TimVG! Is this correct?

View attachment 72580

That looks correct at first glance. The high shelf would be optional but worth exploring nonetheless. Let me know your thoughts on the perceived result.

 

[tjkadar]

I will second the subwoofers.

Hm I've seen test of Crown 2502 or XTZ amp, just not sure about class D. Afraid it won't be full body and end up still going for clean AB power later.

I've used a Yamaha DSP-A1, an Integra DTR 80.2, and a Crown 1502 to drive my KEF R3s. While I couldn't do an A/B/C blind test with the three power sources, I ended up sticking with the Crown (the Crown 2502 measures better than the 1502). For me, there wasn't enough difference in sound not to use the amplifier with the most power. I've been tempted to bridge a pair of Crowns into mono and use them both on the KEFs, but that probably isn't a good idea.

The Crowns were originally going to be used in a pair of subs (four 12" subs per box) I was building, but the pandemic has put that project on hold.

 

[Chagall]

I will second the subwoofers.


I've used a Yamaha DSP-A1, an Integra DTR 80.2, and a Crown 1502 to drive my KEF R3s. While I couldn't do an A/B/C blind test with the three power sources, I ended up sticking with the Crown (the Crown 2502 measures better than the 1502). For me, there wasn't enough difference in sound not to use the amplifier with the most power. I've been tempted to bridge a pair of Crowns into mono and use them both on the KEFs, but that probably isn't a good idea.

The Crowns were originally going to be used in a pair of subs (four 12" subs per box) I was building, but the pandemic has put that project on hold.

Will try adding sub tomorrow. Not sure if it works (haven't used it in 8 years) but would really like to avoid it and just have a pure stereo.

Crown is not on the list because of class D (that is on the cheaper side), no 12V trigger, DSP that i'm not going to use and low damping factor, also ugly as all hell, but has 440W. Compared that to Rotel 1582 - class AB 200W, 800 damping factor, but 2-3 times the price. Yeah, i know i'm paying X amount for the brand name and ease of use, but then again Rotel is reasonably priced compared to more "high end" stuff (hegel, rega, naim).

Basically, I don't know what to expect when I connect 200W into Kef, having never owned amp that powerful or speakers this good.
I read a lot of "this or that amp really made my speakers sing", but I don't know what it means really. Especially in terms of adding a power amp.
Does it change sound character or is that preamps job? Is it "just" giving me headroom and physically driving speaker properly? Is there then any point of system matching or any power amp will do fine with any speaker as long as you hit requirements?

Sorry for the question bombardment.

 

[richard12511]

Will try adding sub tomorrow. Not sure if it works (haven't used it in 8 years) but would really like to avoid it and just have a pure stereo.

Crown is not on the list because of class D (that is on the cheaper side), no 12V trigger, DSP that i'm not going to use and low damping factor, also ugly as all hell, but has 440W. Compared that to Rotel 1582 - class AB 200W, 800 damping factor, but 2-3 times the price. Yeah, i know i'm paying X amount for the brand name and ease of use, but then again Rotel is reasonably priced compared to more "high end" stuff (hegel, rega, naim).

Basically, I don't know what to expect when I connect 200W into Kef, having never owned amp that powerful or speakers this good.
I read a lot of "this or that amp really made my speakers sing", but I don't know what it means really. Especially in terms of adding a power amp.
Does it change sound character or is that preamps job? Is it "just" giving me headroom and physically driving speaker properly? Is there then any point of system matching or any power amp will do fine with any speaker as long as you hit requirements?

Sorry for the question bombardment.

Better amps are mainly just for more headroom. They let you play louder . IME, the three most important components for good sound are 1. The speakers 2. The room/speaker placement 3. DSP/Room Correction. That's not to say other components don't matter, but those are the three that have the most influence, in my experience.

 

[tecnogadget]

System matching is just a myth. Two well engineered amps with same specs will sound the same, if not that means one of them or both are badly engineered.
At the time you connect your R3’s to a 200W nothing really magical will happen but you will be able to turn up the volume to pretty much any desirable volume and won’t feel the amp is holding you back.
As you already pointed out Orchestral music is your goal, usually this recordings are at much lower level/volume relative to 0dBs and have very high dynamic range, a powerful amplification will ensure you good performance during stressing passages/peaks. You always need a margin of power for headroom and low distortion, I really doubt people uses 300/400W amps at full volume inside houses with normal sensitivity speakers.

I suspect what’s been happening is that you enjoy turning up volume and have maxed out the 60W from your Rotel, so at full volume distortion goes up and headroom/dynamics are reduced. Have you ever pushed them to clip ?

 

[Chagall]

So what both @richard12511 and @tecnogadget are saying system matching will make that last 2% (if that) relative to everything else.
Interesting. Because i'm looking for good enough and not magnificent, that makes things easier.

@tecnogadget Yes, exactly orchestral music is so damn low volume but loud during peaks. So, I find myself adjusting volume 20 times during one song. Does it clip during those peaks - not sure.

I enjoy turning the volume up a bit (especially now, 2 weeks into owning new speakers), but I never maxed 60W (Rotel doesn't show dB instead has a volume scale from 0-100, I never passed 62-64). On some music, rock/grunge, 60 was enough to feel like its distorting. Listening to headphones, everything sounded fuller even on lower listening levels - guess I want to achieve that with speakers.

Bottom line, i will try adding sub, speaker positioning is hard - but free, EQ the room once umik finally arrives and amp will just be peace of mind that speakers are properly driven plus headroom.

Thanks guys.